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Thread: What do you guys think of the Ten Commandments (Ten Words)?

  1. #1

    What do you guys think of the Ten Commandments (Ten Words)?

    What do you guys think of the Ten Commandments, or as my church refers to them as, The Ten Words? I'm just wondering, since a lot of Christians place heavy emphasis on them, but I don't, since Jesus himself couldn't even remember them all, nor do I think they are all good commandments. But what do you guys think?

  2. #2
    ...means nothing to no way Furore's Avatar
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    Personally, I think they're good to live by, BUT sometimes it's in the best interests of others to break them, even if it is indeed bad for the soul.

    An example could be theft. Say evidence is needed before a government body can act on suspicions of whatever. Or killing. Self defence and stopping one crazy from killing several others surely don't seem that bad at all to me.
    Oh they ARE bad, but the alternatives are worse.
    victoria aut mors

  3. #3
    Really they can apply to anyone and everything if you look at them correct.

    Like the simpler ones, Thou Shall Not Kill, function easilly, while they others need more thinking involved.

    Day of Rest one, Uh... if you work too hard you'll actually kill yourself. A client of my company died like that. Quite literally worked himself to death.

    There is only one god. Don't try to act like a god, no matter how high you get in society, you'll fall all the same. You're not immortal. You're not all knowing. You are not perfect. You exist in this plane only at one time.

    You need to approach the others the same way to understand.
    Open-mindedness is key.
    "What is it that makes you right over all others? What another tell you does not count."

    "You say we are completely different, I believe otherwise.
    You claim we are vastly superior, I beg to differ."

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  4. #4
    Personally, I think they're good to live by, BUT sometimes it's in the best interests of others to break them, even if it is indeed bad for the soul.
    How can your best interest be for the soul? Though I don't believe in following the ten words completely, as a Christian I put more emphasis on the Mosaic Laws (I follow the dietary laws for example, one of the few that does it).


    Like the simpler ones, Thou Shall Not Kill, function easilly, while they others need more thinking involved.
    Well, it doesn't say don't kill, it says don't murder.

    You must not murder. Anyone who attacks a man and kills him must be put to death.

    Exodus 20:13, 21:12

    I think there's a difference personally between killing and murdering.


    Day of Rest one, Uh... if you work too hard you'll actually kill yourself. A client of my company died like that. Quite literally worked himself to death.
    Where does the Bible command a day of rest?



    There is only one god. Don't try to act like a god, no matter how high you get in society, you'll fall all the same. You're not immortal. You're not all knowing. You are not perfect. You exist in this plane only at one time.
    The Bible doesn't say there is not one god, because it's obvious there isn't only one, but only worship one: Yahweh.

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    ...means nothing to no way Furore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vevuxking102 View Post
    How can your best interest be for the soul? Though I don't believe in following the ten words completely, as a Christian I put more emphasis on the Mosaic Laws (I follow the dietary laws for example, one of the few that does it).
    I don't really care that much about my own soul. I care more looking out for what I see as right. Sure I sin, sure I'll spend a few eternities in purgatory, but at the end of the day I'll have my self respect. I see the ten commandments as guidelines. It's never completely right to break one, but at times it can be justified. You can still feel sorry about something you felt you had to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by vevuxking
    Well, it doesn't say don't kill, it says don't murder.

    You must not murder. Anyone who attacks a man and kills him must be put to death.

    Exodus 20:13, 21:12

    I think there's a difference personally between killing and murdering.
    Killing and murder are the same thing. You're essentially snuffing out the life of another. The life of someone which could have ended any other way than you killing them. It's NEVER right to kill someone, but there are times it can be seen as justifiable. The extent this applies will naturally differ from person to person as no-one really sees these exactly the same as another.
    Last edited by Furore; 03-22-2008 at 02:51 AM. Reason: mistake
    victoria aut mors

  6. #6
    I don't really care that much about my own soul. I care more looking out for what I see as right.
    Well, isn't what's right for you what's right for the soul? I don't understand that statement...


    Sure I sin, sure I'll spend a few eternities in purgatory,
    Isn't purgatory fictional? I don't understand how you'll spend time there.


    but at the end of the day I'll have my self respect. I see the ten commandments as guidelines.
    Well, they were meant to be laws, but I guess you could see them as guidelines.


    It's never completely right to break one, but at times it can be justified. You can still feel sorry about something you felt you had to do.
    If it's justified in breaking it, why do you feel sorry for it?


    Killing and murder are the same thing.
    How? The Bible says there is a difference.


    It's NEVER right to kill someone, but there are times it can be seen as justifiable
    If it's justifiable, is it not right?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by vevuxking102 View Post
    Where does the Bible command a day of rest?




    The Bible doesn't say there is not one god, because it's obvious there isn't only one, but only worship one: Yahweh.


    It's not the bible part, it's in the 10 commandments.

    The day of rest is Sunday.

    And the other is "Thou shall only worship one god"




    I follow the 7 sins as guidelines/boundaries more as they can be understanded easier with an open but knowing mind.

    Pride is considered the deadliest of sins.
    Ask yourself, this, "Why do I hate? Why do I fear? What is it's purpose to hate and to fear? Just why?"

    It is because people don't want to lose to others. People, or rather Humans, don't want
    to be lower then something they already see as beneath them. They want to be high and mighty, towering over others, and they set steps along the way as visuals to mark the points.


    Another interesting point is out of the concept of pride, the fact of not having enough pride, or the thought of having more pride translating into a false sense of power, other human traits branch out.

    Greed comes when a person wants more then others, to push themselves higher by having more then those who are not part of them. They tend to do as much as they can not stopping at anything to get what they want.

    Envy appears when a person can't get what they want. They begin to hate those who have, while they have very little or none at all. The hatred turns to actions that may damage those that have.

    Gluttony is created when a person thinks they won't get enough, so they take more then they need, not sparring any for others. Usually associated with food, what they see, they take, thinking only about themselves not caring about others.

    Sloth is conjured when a person puts their own wants and need before others, usually taking their own time in times of need. The thought of, "It's not my time, so why should I care" comes about.

    Lust happens when a person thinks that the power they have bypasses all others and other laws that govern them. As it implies, things like rape and torture happen with that power, as well as adultery.

    Wrath, well wrath is what I explained up above. It's the hatred from the fear people have, usually fear of others.



    Give up on pride... it will destroy you from the inside out... trust me...
    "What is it that makes you right over all others? What another tell you does not count."

    "You say we are completely different, I believe otherwise.
    You claim we are vastly superior, I beg to differ."

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  8. #8

    It's not the bible part, it's in the 10 commandments.
    Well, the ten words are in the Bible, and they don't say there is only one God.

    Then Yahweh spoke all these words. He said, 'I am Yahweh your God. You shall have no other gods before me. Do not mention the name of any other god -- let none ever be heard from your lips. Anyone who sacrifices to other gods must be destroyed.

    Exodus 20:1-3, 23:13, 22:20

    The day of rest is Sunday.
    You mean the Sabbath, which is not a day of rest, but of worship, and it's Saturday, not Sunday.


    And the other is "Thou shall only worship one god"
    That particular sentence is not in the Bible though.


    I follow the 7 sins as guidelines/boundaries more as they can be understanded easier with an open but knowing mind.

    What's the seven sins? There's billions of sins, not just seven. Who's telling you there's only seven?


    Pride is considered the deadliest of sins.

    Who considers that a sin?



    Give up on pride... it will destroy you from the inside out... trust me...

    Why would a little bit of pride be a bad thing?

  9. #9
    ...means nothing to no way Furore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vevuxking102 View Post
    Well, isn't what's right for you what's right for the soul? I don't understand that statement...
    No human can honestly say they're sure they understand the soul. I care more for what I see as right and wrong. All there is to say here.

    Isn't purgatory fictional? I don't understand how you'll spend time there.
    Some would see it as fictional. Just as some would see Christianity as fictional. I've read enough texts to say I believe in it. A place where sins are purged. But believe what you will.

    Well, they were meant to be laws, but I guess you could see them as guidelines.
    Too right. The bible is that open to interpretation, I could see many things any way I like really. As can you, and any other Christian. I don't hold much stock in most man written religious texts though. Especially with the ease people have edited other things. Look at those councils in times past for example. And all the different versions too. I'd need to be able to read the original bible in it's original language and format to put my complete trust in it. There's also that I feel no human language could convey everything from a higher being such as God.

    If it's justified in breaking it, why do you feel sorry for it?
    Because it's still wrong. It's just the lesser of multiple evils at times. It really depends on how a person sees things.

    How? The Bible says there is a difference.
    Or does it? It does in it's own way say there are times it is justifiable to kill someone. It's still killing them though. They stop living, their human body rots, etc. Dead is dead. Call killing whatever you want. It's still killing. Murder is just a word for it.

    If it's justifiable, is it not right?
    Not necessarily. There are times when the lesser of two evils is the best option. That doesn't make it right, merely less wrong. Few things are absolute, fewer things when concepts such as 'good' and 'evil' get into the scheme of things. And don't get me started on morals and ethics...
    victoria aut mors

  10. #10
    No human can honestly say they're sure they understand the soul. I care more for what I see as right and wrong. All there is to say here.
    But the Bible says you can understand the soul, so I believe you can.


    Some would see it as fictional.
    Well, who's advocating it as real? Is it not fictional? I don't even remember where it's from, but I believe it's a in between afterlife, an idea blasphemous to Christianity.


    Just as some would see Christianity as fictional. I've read enough texts to say I believe in it. A place where sins are purged. But believe what you will.
    Who's telling you that such a fictional place? And only Jesus Christ purges sin, no single location can.


    Too right. The bible is that open to interpretation, I could see many things any way I like really.
    I don't believe the Bible is open to interpretation, and I do believe if you see it the way you want it to be, you're headed for Hell.


    As can you, and any other Christian. I don't hold much stock in most man written religious texts though.
    But the Bible was written by God, through his human pencils.


    Especially with the ease people have edited other things. Look at those councils in times past for example. And all the different versions too.

    How does that falsify it?


    I'd need to be able to read the original bible in it's original language and format to put my complete trust in it.
    It's called the Hebrew/Greek Bible. The Bible has been preserved in it's original meaning.


    There's also that I feel no human language could convey everything from a higher being such as God.
    Why? What makes God above using languages to communicate?


    Because it's still wrong. It's just the lesser of multiple evils at times. It really depends on how a person sees things.
    There is no greater or lesser evil, all evil is evil.


    Or does it? It does in it's own way say there are times it is justifiable to kill someone.
    Of course the Bible says to kill people, since it's right to kill. Just not to murder.


    Call killing whatever you want. It's still killing. Murder is just a word for it.

    No it's not.


    Not necessarily. There are times when the lesser of two evils is the best option.
    There is no lesser evil. All evil is evil, the Bible is clear on that.

  11. #11
    There's one massive problem with taking everything just as it is in the bible...
    It's been edited over the centuries by several people.


    Those who edited it want you to always act on your beliefs, even it it goes against what you absolutely know.

    Just because you want to believe in something doesn't make it any truer then before.
    You don't want to believe that your family is dieing, and believing not is nothing short of denial. If you know it's true, why lie to yourself? Religion is the unknown, as is all theories.

    Beliefs need to be keep on the individual basis, what you know needs to be active in your decision making.

    Like my explanation of God.

    "God, I'd say, is fickle. Sorta like he exists, yet not really.

    Christian views are that he is within every single thing, and cannot be removed or changed in anyway. Although whether God is a "He" or "She" or any gender, really doesn't matter one bit, even if some or many think so.


    It would be easier to explain like this:

    God is like the unit number absolute "0". It is between the positive and negative numbers, and doesn't have a positive or negative value sign. You can't have multiples of it, as it comes out, in the end, to just one "0". You cannot divide anything by it, as it has no set value, other then "0". You cannot add more of it to other numbers to alter their value, nor take away to do the same. Adding to it or taking away from it, just ends up with the number you are using, sorta like passing through it without touching. It is always part of other numbers, and no matter what you do to them, it will always be there.


    As for the part of between positive and negative, it is a point to keep balance between both sides, not letting one completely win, as the winner brings power, and power undoubtedly can corrupt anyone, no matter where they stand. Well just read my Sig, "Being light or dark does not dictate whether you are good or evil."

    There isn't more then one, as a multiple of "0" just leads to "0". Multiples of the same means that if there were, they would be identical in every way, shape, form, and mental thinking.

    You can't be divided by "God" as there is only one in everything, so in the end, it comes out to just 1 of "God".

    One cannot have more "God" in themselves then another, as it is only one equal share of "0" for everyone. This is where I differentiate between the Vatican and myself. The concept of "someone more holy then another" is not very likely, as anyone and "everyone is created equal", no matter who you are. What happens after, is different for everyone. It may not be physically or mentally, but spiritually, within one's soul, they are all the same. This probably pushes me towards the point of a "Quaker". lol


    This also draws upon the concept of you can believe it is there or not, but you cannot truly say one or the other. You cannot 100% prove that "0" does not exist, or that it is really there. It is entirely, personal preference. IF you want to believe that someone is watching you at all times, then do so; IF not, then you do not have to.

    I also do not believe that someone or anyone should be forced to believe in something they do not want to believe in. All people should lead individual lives, and not forcefully meddle in the lives of others.


    "Give them the option to follow, not a command; one that is devoid of all lies and deceit that could bring corruption to the world and the ones that reside in it."



    (Note: I'm not talking about any "0"s, like in the number "10", I am talking about absolute "0" with positive infinity on one side and negative infinity on the other.)"





    Unfortunately it's that thinking is what branded me both a heretic to the masters and a savior to the marionettes, lol.



    Oh yes, and not giving interpretations a chance, is nothing short of denial and an uncontrollable fear. As my sig explains, the fear becomes destructive hate.

    I'm not ridiculaling you vevuxking102, I'm just trying to help those with closed minds, open to new ideas.


    Lastly, the 7 sins precursor the bible. Please read it again with an open mind on the subject. It's a back to basics sort of thing.
    "What is it that makes you right over all others? What another tell you does not count."

    "You say we are completely different, I believe otherwise.
    You claim we are vastly superior, I beg to differ."

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    grant to you what is truly wanted by
    your heart and make it attainable,
    where as the infinite will not."

    "The world owes you nothing,
    not even an explanation."



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  12. #12
    ...means nothing to no way Furore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vevuxking102 View Post
    But the Bible says you can understand the soul, so I believe you can.
    No it doesn't. And if it does it doesn't mean directly. The human mind has it's limits. And as I've heard much more compelling arguments with much more evidence than anything you've brought up thus far.... yeah.

    Well, who's advocating it as real? Is it not fictional? I don't even remember where it's from, but I believe it's a in between afterlife, an idea blasphemous to Christianity.
    I for one advocate it as real as do several other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    In Roman Catholic Christianity, purgatory is the condition, process, or place of purification or temporary punishment in which the souls of those who die in a state of grace are made ready for heaven.[1]

    Some other Christian denominations also assert the possibility of an improvement in the soul's spiritual situation following death. The Eastern Orthodox Church believes in the possibility of a change of situation for the souls of the dead through the prayers of the living and the offering of the Divine Liturgy,[2] and many Orthodox, especially among ascetics, hope and pray for a general apocatastasis[3]A similar belief in at least the possibility of a final salvation for all is held by Mormonism.[4] Moreover Judaism also believes in the possibility of after-death purification[5] and may even use the word "purgatory" to present its understanding of the meaning of Gehenna.[6] However, the concept of soul "purification may be explicitly denied in these other faith traditions.

    The word "purgatory" is also used, in a non-specific sense, to mean any place or condition of suffering or torment, especially one that is temporary.[7]
    My God, a lot of Christians really should. Blasphemous that, it was your own opinion and nothing more. Christianity is that broad a term, few things apply completely along all Christians.

    Who's telling you that such a fictional place? And only Jesus Christ purges sin, no single location can.
    I don't really agree with some views on purgatory, but to me myself, it is merely the cleansing of sins. And I would imagine that it is a painful process as if it were not there'd be no punishment for sins that may be forgiven.

    I don't believe the Bible is open to interpretation, and I do believe if you see it the way you want it to be, you're headed for Hell.
    The bible HAS to be open to interpretation due to the way it's written. It has more metaphors and hidden messages than anything I've ever read. And believe me I've read some pretty cryptic shit.

    But the Bible was written by God, through his human pencils.
    Since when did humans become Godly writing instruments? The Bible was written by man with the message God provided. It's accuracy in certain parts is debatable. Some denominations have even added or taken out content. Or even edited things somewhat.

    How does that falsify it?
    It was edited by men. And even men with the best intentions **** up at times. That's part of what it means to be human. And then there may also have been those with their own hidden agendas. From what I hear, there has been a lot of corruption within Christianity at certain point in time.

    It's called the Hebrew/Greek Bible. The Bible has been preserved in it's original meaning.
    And I don't understand Greek or Hebrew, so like many I am forced to make do with translations. And many things lose some of their meaning when translated. Or take in entirely new meanings. Do you understand and have access to an original?

    Why? What makes God above using languages to communicate?
    Nothing. But we're below understanding many things. Especially those fundamentalist types that don't even seem to be completely there in the head. I've conversed with a few...

    Humans are imperfect, not God. And as He communicates the way He does for reasons only He knows, none can be sure they have the correct meanings.

    There is no greater or lesser evil, all evil is evil.
    Aye, evil is evil, just as good is good. But I very much doubt there's any way a person can do an act purely good or purely evil. Every action has both positive and negative consequences, and these can include both good and evil. If you believe yourself incapable of evil, you're guilty of pride, which IS a sin by the way. One of the seven deadly sins. It's a sin as it can be responsible for the suffering of others which is evil when you're benefiting.

    Of course the Bible says to kill people, since it's right to kill. Just not to murder.
    Oh it's right to kill is it? That don't sound like a good Christian attitude. Let's go kill everyone that sins. yay! Purge the evil etc.
    I'll throw what you said right back in your face. Evil is evil.
    Call it what you want, hide behind some obscure text, that doesn't make it right at all.

    No it's not.
    Ah... yeah it sort of is. Or why isn't it? Enlighten me, I'm all ears.

    There is no lesser evil. All evil is evil, the Bible is clear on that.
    No it's not. The bible isn't clear on anything and if you think it is clear on something you obviously haven't looked it over well enough. Or you have a very corrupted version. The Lord speaks in mysterious ways, he doesn't say 'Ok mates, these are the ground rules, these are the little sub laws with this and that yadda yadda yadda.'
    victoria aut mors

  13. #13
    There's one massive problem with taking everything just as it is in the bible...
    It's been edited over the centuries by several people.
    How has it?


    Those who edited it want you to always act on your beliefs, even it it goes against what you absolutely know.
    What I know is the Bible is the word of God, and I always act on the Bible.


    Just because you want to believe in something doesn't make it any truer then before.
    I agree, but it's not a matter of what, it's a matter of the truth, and the Bible is the truth.


    You don't want to believe that your family is dieing, and believing not is nothing short of denial
    What makes you think I'd be in denial if a family member was dying? As a Christian, I would rejoice if one of them was dying. As it is written:

    If anyone does not hate his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

    Luke 14:26

    I rejoice when those I hate die.


    If you know it's true, why lie to yourself? Religion is the unknown, as is all theories.
    Religions and theories are too completely different things though.



    Beliefs need to be keep on the individual basis, what you know needs to be active in your decision making.

    What do you mean beliefs need to be on an individual basis? That doesn't make any sense...



    "God, I'd say, is fickle. Sorta like he exists, yet not really.

    That has to be one of the most evil things I've ever read in my life.


    Christian views are that he is within every single thing,

    That's not a Christian view. What Christian has told you that?


    and cannot be removed or changed in anyway. Although whether God is a "He" or "She" or any gender, really doesn't matter one bit, even if some or many think so.
    God is male, since the Bible says he is.



    Lastly, the 7 sins precursor the bible. Please read it again with an open mind on the subject. It's a back to basics sort of thing.
    I've never even heard of the concept of only seven sins, how can they come from the Bible? There are billions of sins, and the bible makes that clear. What makes you think otherwise?

    And read what with an open mind?

    No it doesn't. And if it does it doesn't mean directly.
    Yes it does.

    Matthew 7:7 Seek and you will find.

    The human mind has it's limits.
    Of course, but understanding the soul is not one of them.

    And as I've heard much more compelling arguments with much more evidence than anything you've brought up thus far.... yeah.
    What evidence? And for what?

    I for one advocate it as real as do several other places.
    Why? It's not in the Bible.

    In Roman Catholic Christianity, purgatory is the condition, process, or place of purification or temporary punishment in which the souls of those who die in a state of grace are made ready for heaven.[1]
    Well, that makes sense, the Roman Catholic Church does promote blasphemy and evil. So that's why I've never heard of it, since I've never really interacted with Catholics.

    My God, a lot of Christians really should. Blasphemous that, it was your own opinion and nothing more. Christianity is that broad a term, few things apply completely along all Christians.
    If it's not in the Bible, it's blasphemous, and does not exist.

    I don't really agree with some views on purgatory, but to me myself, it is merely the cleansing of sins.
    But no location can do that, only Jesus Christ can do that.

    s. And I would imagine that it is a painful process as if it were not there'd be no punishment for sins that may be forgiven.
    Which sins? Since not all sins are forgiven.

    The bible HAS to be open to interpretation due to the way it's written.
    How?

    It has more metaphors and hidden messages than anything I've ever read. And believe me I've read some pretty cryptic shit.
    How are metaphors hidden messages? And what's cryptic in the Bible?

    Since when did humans become Godly writing instruments?
    Since Yahweh Almighty made them.

    he Bible was written by man with the message God provided.
    Not true, God wrote it with his human pencils.

    It's accuracy in certain parts is debatable.
    By whom?

    Some denominations have even added or taken out content. Or even edited things somewhat.
    Well, I'm sure Catholics and Protestants have, but they are not real Christians.

    It was edited by men.
    So? I'm sure some versions even gay God loves everyone, but that doesn't mean anything. The Bible in it's original form is clear that it is God's word.

    And even men with the best intentions **** up at times. That's part of what it means to be human.
    What does that have to do with God writing the Bible?

    And then there may also have been those with their own hidden agendas. From what I hear, there has been a lot of corruption within Christianity at certain point in time.
    Who told you such crapola?

    And I don't understand Greek or Hebrew, so like many I am forced to make do with translations.
    Ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek is easily translated. Just get any Bible concordance, and it will help out.

    And many things lose some of their meaning when translated. Or take in entirely new meanings. Do you understand and have access to an original?
    My church does have the original Bible, as any church can get, but my church took the time to write it's own version, which I even have an online .txt version of.

    Nothing. But we're below understanding many things. Especially those fundamentalist types that don't even seem to be completely there in the head. I've conversed with a few...
    We're not below understanding God. He's just like humans, just a bit more powerful.

    And fundamentalist of what?

    Humans are imperfect, not God.
    No one is perfect, not even God. Anyone who says God is perfect is headed for Hell.

    And as He communicates the way He does for reasons only He knows, none can be sure they have the correct meanings.
    He communicates directly with us, so how could it be confusing?

    Aye, evil is evil, just as good is good. But I very much doubt there's any way a person can do an act purely good or purely evil.
    Christians act purely good and sinners act purely evil. There.

    Every action has both positive and negative consequences, and these can include both good and evil. If you believe yourself incapable of evil, you're guilty of pride, which IS a sin by the way.
    The Bible says Christians are incapable of sin, and how is pride related to that? And where does the Bible say pride is a sin? Is that some foolish Catholic concept?

    One of the seven deadly sins.
    What is the seven deadly sins?

    It's a sin as it can be responsible for the suffering of others which is evil when you're benefiting.
    Who said that?

    Oh it's right to kill is it? That don't sound like a good Christian attitude. Let's go kill everyone that sins. yay! Purge the evil etc.
    That IS a good Christian attitude.

    If you hear that in one of the towns, there are men who are telling people to go and worship other gods, it is your duty to look into the matter and examine it. If it is proved and confirmed, you must attack the inhabitants of that town with the edge of the sword. You must lay the town under the curse of destruction, the town and everything in it. You must pile up all its loot in the public square and burn the town and all its loot. That town is to be a ruin for all time, and never rebuilt.

    Deuteronomy 13:13-17

    I'll throw what you said right back in your face. Evil is evil.
    I don't disagree with that.

    Call it what you want, hide behind some obscure text, that doesn't make it right at all.
    God says it's right, so it's right.

    Ah... yeah it sort of is. Or why isn't it? Enlighten me, I'm all ears.
    Sort of is what? I kind of lost track, sorry.

    No it's not. The bible isn't clear on anything and if you think it is clear on something you obviously haven't looked it over well enough.
    Really? I think it's clear on everything it says. What is it not clear on?

    Or you have a very corrupted version.
    Well, show me how you think my Bible version is corrupted.

    The Lord speaks in mysterious ways, he doesn't say 'Ok mates, these are the ground rules, these are the little sub laws with this and that yadda yadda yadda.'
    Where does Yahweh speak in mysterious ways? That's blasphemy there. The Lord talks directly.

    Then Yahweh spoke all these words.
    Exodus 20:1-3, 23:13, 22:20

    Yahweh used to talk to Moses face to face, as a man talks to a friend.
    Exodus 33:11

    Joshua 7:10
    Then Yahweh said to Joshua, 'Israel has taken something that was put under the curse of destruction. That is why the Israelites cannot stand up to their foes.'

    It seems you know next to nothing on the Bible. Admit it, you never read it, and you couldn't care less if you never saw it again,

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by vevuxking102 View Post
    How has it?
    How has it not. For most, it's the thought of not knowing. Do you honestly believe that a text such as that, over 2 millinium hasn't been tampered with?



    What I know is the Bible is the word of God, and I always act on the Bible.
    No, you assume it is correct, never knowing if it is or not.



    I agree, but it's not a matter of what, it's a matter of the truth, and the Bible is the truth.
    Again you assume it is correct. You begin to deny the possibility of otherwise.



    What makes you think I'd be in denial if a family member was dying? As a Christian, I would rejoice if one of them was dying. As it is written:

    If anyone does not hate his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

    Luke 14:26

    I rejoice when those I hate die.
    Hatred (ie:wrath) is the work of Lucifer. That's giving in to the Morning Star's ways. That's part of the 7 sins. Each is a path to hell, unfortunately.



    Religions and theories are too completely different things though.
    No, Religion is a set of theories that people believe in. Is an atheist who hates Christians any different then a Christian who hates atheists? Nope.




    What do you mean beliefs need to be on an individual basis? That doesn't make any sense...
    You may talk about them, but like I said, Just because you want to believe in something doesn't make it any truer then before.
    You don't want to believe that your family is dieing, isn't an excuse for pretending they're still alive?



    That has to be one of the most evil things I've ever read in my life.
    Nope, not evil, It's a rational thinking view.
    Why is it evil? I'm not trying to do anything for personal gain of self or others.
    I'm not here for that sort of thing, except FF info.

    What could I gain by opening up people to the whole world around them? You can't control a thinking person.


    And it's a theory in itself.



    That's not a Christian view. What Christian has told you that?
    "He(used as a general term w/o gender) is within everything" if I remember correctly.
    It's a basic saying in the religion as I'm apart of. Where are you at?



    God is male, since the Bible says he is.
    It's neither male nor female. God's existance goes beyond such things even in theory.



    I've never even heard of the concept of only seven sins, how can they come from the Bible? There are billions of sins, and the bible makes that clear. What makes you think otherwise?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins
    It's in the bible, whether you want to believe it or not.
    These are the stem of other sins.



    And read what with an open mind?
    Everything. Never deny the possibility of anything. Anything is possible.

    Self reasoning is what should dictate one own action, as it bridges a gap between everything. Theory to Theory, Religion to Religion, Culture to Culture, World to World, Life to Life...




    And remember one little fact: God hates no one because God fears no one. Why would God need to?
    "What is it that makes you right over all others? What another tell you does not count."

    "You say we are completely different, I believe otherwise.
    You claim we are vastly superior, I beg to differ."

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    grant to you what is truly wanted by
    your heart and make it attainable,
    where as the infinite will not."

    "The world owes you nothing,
    not even an explanation."



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  15. #15
    How has it not. For most, it's the thought of not knowing. Do you honestly believe that a text such as that, over 2 millinium hasn't been tampered with?
    I do believe it's never been tampered with, since it says it hasn't.

    No, you assume it is correct, never knowing if it is or not.
    I know it's correct.

    Again you assume it is correct. You begin to deny the possibility of otherwise.
    I deny the possibility otherwise because it is not possible.

    Hatred (ie:wrath) is the work of Lucifer
    Hatred is the work of a dead Babylonian king? I'm afraid not, Hatred is the work of God. God is a being of hatred, and it is his primary purpose of being.

    That's giving in to the Morning Star's ways.
    Of course I follow the Morning Star's ways. Jesus is the Morning Star.

    I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.

    Revelation 22:16

    That's part of the 7 sins. Each is a path to hell, unfortunately.
    What seven sins? There's billions of sins. Anyone preaching that there is only seven is a lying, hell bound false prophet.

    No, Religion is a set of theories that people believe in.
    No they are not.

    Theory:

    In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theories commonly used to describe and explain this behavior are Newton's theory of universal gravitation (see also gravitation), and the theory of general relativity.

    Religion:

    A religion is a set of beliefs and practices often organized around supernatural and moral claims, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.

    Is an atheist who hates Christians any different then a Christian who hates atheists? Nope.
    Yes, since they believe two very different things. But I've never run into Atheist who hate Christians in my life.

    You may talk about them, but like I said, Just because you want to believe in something doesn't make it any truer then before.
    But it's not a matter of wanting, it's a matter of believing the truth, which is the Bible.

    You don't want to believe that your family is dieing, isn't an excuse for pretending they're still alive?
    No, and who says any family members of mine are dying?

    Nope, not evil, It's a rational thinking view.
    Why is it evil? I'm not trying to do anything for personal gain of self or others.
    I'm not here for that sort of thing, except FF info.
    Because God is as real as any human being, and believing otherwise is evil.


    What could I gain by opening up people to the whole world around them? You can't control a thinking person.
    No one controls anyone but Yahweh.


    And it's a theory in itself.
    No, it's not.

    "He(used as a general term w/o gender) is within everything" if I remember correctly.
    Who stated that?

    It's a basic saying in the religion as I'm apart of. Where are you at?
    What religion are you apart of? Since it definitely is not Christianity.


    It's neither male nor female. God's existance goes beyond such things even in theory.
    Not true at all, since the Bible says God is male.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins
    It's in the bible, whether you want to believe it or not.
    These are the stem of other sins.
    I actually read that link you gave:

    "The seven deadly sins, also known as the capital vices or cardinal sins, are a classification of vices that were originally used in early Christian teachings to educate and instruct followers concerning (immoral) fallen man's tendency to sin. The Roman Catholic Church divided sin into two principal categories:"

    Nothing a Catholic says comes from the Bible. They are bunch of money grubbing, lying, hell bound, idol worshiping fools. Tell me the verse where it mentions SEVEN deadly sins. And if they were deadly, they'd kill you. But they don't. They damn you to Hell.

    Everything. Never deny the possibility of anything. Anything is possible.
    Not true at all. For example, things like ESP and Psychic powers could never be possible under completely natural circumstances since humans use the full potential of their brains.

    Self reasoning is what should dictate one own action, as it bridges a gap between everything. Theory to Theory, Religion to Religion, Culture to Culture, World to World, Life to Life...
    Who told you that crap?

    And remember one little fact: God hates no one because God fears no one.
    Wrong. God hates most people.

    Why would God need to?
    God doesn't need to, he just wants to. God is hatred.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by vevuxking102 View Post
    I do believe it's never been tampered with, since it says it hasn't.



    I know it's correct.



    I deny the possibility otherwise because it is not possible.



    Hatred is the work of a dead Babylonian king? I'm afraid not, Hatred is the work of God. God is a being of hatred, and it is his primary purpose of being.



    Of course I follow the Morning Star's ways. Jesus is the Morning Star.

    I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.

    Revelation 22:16



    What seven sins? There's billions of sins. Anyone preaching that there is only seven is a lying, hell bound false prophet.



    No they are not.

    Theory:

    In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theories commonly used to describe and explain this behavior are Newton's theory of universal gravitation (see also gravitation), and the theory of general relativity.

    Religion:

    A religion is a set of beliefs and practices often organized around supernatural and moral claims, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.



    Yes, since they believe two very different things. But I've never run into Atheist who hate Christians in my life.



    But it's not a matter of wanting, it's a matter of believing the truth, which is the Bible.



    No, and who says any family members of mine are dying?



    Because God is as real as any human being, and believing otherwise is evil.




    No one controls anyone but Yahweh.



    No, it's not.



    Who stated that?



    What religion are you apart of? Since it definitely is not Christianity.




    Not true at all, since the Bible says God is male.



    I actually read that link you gave:

    "The seven deadly sins, also known as the capital vices or cardinal sins, are a classification of vices that were originally used in early Christian teachings to educate and instruct followers concerning (immoral) fallen man's tendency to sin. The Roman Catholic Church divided sin into two principal categories:"

    Nothing a Catholic says comes from the Bible. They are bunch of money grubbing, lying, hell bound, idol worshiping fools. Tell me the verse where it mentions SEVEN deadly sins. And if they were deadly, they'd kill you. But they don't. They damn you to Hell.



    Not true at all. For example, things like ESP and Psychic powers could never be possible under completely natural circumstances since humans use the full potential of their brains.



    Who told you that crap?



    Wrong. God hates most people.



    God doesn't need to, he just wants to. God is hatred.




    Welcome to the realm of denial and begging at your master's scraps of words.


    Master or Marionette? Which will you be? Will you be used or be the one using? A follower or ruler? Why would you want to be either one? If you want to control, why? If you want to follow, why? Both are, in complete truth, just weak. I guess each need to be explained first.

    A follower, first of all, is one who, well follows, never really understanding why, yet never ask why. They follow orders or a set law just to follow them. There are many in the world. I’ve watched them everywhere; on the news; in crowds; while online… it doesn’t matter what they are told, they believe it and follow it. People assume what they believe to be true, because their master said it, or their master references something that is true but lumps it with something that may not be. How will it bring a better world? It won’t, simple as that.
    Most groups consist of followers. They exist in just about all nations, organizations, factions, and groups. Whether it be a religious cause or otherwise, they follow it to the end, all for their master’s goals. Those who hate…, those who envy and so on…, they’re all followers even if they don’t know it.
    I wrote this.

    You have become just a puppet for your master's control. You believe everything and anything he says as true. Not God, mind you, but your so called preacher. You are fed hatred and with it, your master commands obediences.

    Your master tells you it's true, that the words existed before him, yet you don't know. You want to believe so badly that you deny anything else. A puppet, fodder of nothing.

    You refuse to understand reason, as your master commands so. You refuse to even try to understand.

    I see through deception.
    I see through hatred.
    I see through fear.
    I see through you, follower of the fallen.


    You went past what is right and what is wrong. Only what your master tells you. You'd do what is wrong if your master says it's alright.
    Your hatred has no meaning. It contradicts what you believe, but you do so any way as your master commands you to.


    I sense it, you fear me.

    There is no reason to.




    Now who specifically is your master?
    "What is it that makes you right over all others? What another tell you does not count."

    "You say we are completely different, I believe otherwise.
    You claim we are vastly superior, I beg to differ."

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    "Using a finite power of the infinite given will always
    grant to you what is truly wanted by
    your heart and make it attainable,
    where as the infinite will not."

    "The world owes you nothing,
    not even an explanation."



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  17. #17

    I sense it, you fear me.
    Uh...yeah. I don't even know you. How could I fear you?

    There is no reason to.
    I know, so I don't.


    Now who specifically is your master?
    Yahweh, my God.

  18. #18
    ...means nothing to no way Furore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vevuxking102 View Post
    Yes it does.
    Where does it say that? Show me. Or can't you? Because if you can't you're making me type for no good reason. And that's annoying.

    Matthew 7:7 Seek and you will find.
    I'm still seeking how that has any relevance to anything really. We may find all answers after leaving this world for the next, but few answers to the questions that really matter are within easy reach.

    Of course, but understanding the soul is not one of them.
    Ok, then, do you fully understand the soul? Does someone you know? If a human can fully understand the soul I want a full explanation of it's workings. Failure to provide such an explanation will mean you were just talking shit. Success will leave me amazed. And I mean FULL explanation, or there is no understanding.

    What evidence? And for what?
    Evidence for many things and from many people. Check out the vast majority of intellectual discussion threads for example. This is more of a theological discussion though so it's very hard to say you definitely hold any answer. It's more a 'what you believe' type thing.

    Why? It's not in the Bible.
    Well it makes sense. Will God really just allow anyone who tries to be good yet sins horribly? I refuse to believe He's jerk enough to screw any good natured people over, being an all powerful being and all.

    Well, that makes sense, the Roman Catholic Church does promote blasphemy and evil. So that's why I've never heard of it, since I've never really interacted with Catholics.
    Saying other Christians promote blasphemy and evil. That's not cool man. It's dissing on the beliefs of others. And if you refuse to interact with others on the basis of religion, how does that make you a good person? Nothing personal, but maybe you SHOULD chat with some of those 'evil' Roman Catholics.

    If it's not in the Bible, it's blasphemous, and does not exist.
    You're overusing the word 'blasphemous' to go with your opinions. That isn't something to do lightly, especially if you do not wish to cause offense. As for the second bit. My penis is not in the bible. It exists. Kangaroos aren't in the bible, they exist. Want pictures?

    But no location can do that, only Jesus Christ can do that.
    I never said purgatory was a location. You're over reading into what I've written. A difference interpretation. To me purgatory is a process. I believe it exists yet do not even pretend to know how it goes about. And how do you know Jesus Christ is the only one who can? HUH HUH. (Half expects a 'because my bible says it here, here and here').

    Which sins? Since not all sins are forgiven.
    God has the power to forgive ALL sins. We are all born with original sin, but God can forgive anything if he chooses. He is almighty.

    How?
    Well it's written by several dozen people over a great length of time in many different writing styles and contains things such as parables which may contain multiple meanings. And other parts can seem to contain other messages as well.

    How are metaphors hidden messages? And what's cryptic in the Bible?
    Metaphors can be deceptive at times. As they can involve depicting something in one way yet also in another way which may not be as readily apparent. There are many cryptic parts to the bible. If there weren't everyone would have a perfect understanding and half the denominational splits may never have occurred.

    Since Yahweh Almighty made them.
    He made us as people. Not shafts filled with ink or whatever the stuff in lead pencils now is. And he doesn't physically pick a person up with one Godly hand and take over their body. At least I very much doubt that. I could use some evidence at the very least.

    Not true, God wrote it with his human pencils.
    Uhhhhh.... no. Why would God need pencils anyway? He revealed his message to some people and they recorded it the best they could. Prove me wrong.

    By whom?
    By me, Drake and all the other people out there holding discussions such as these. And several gatherings of Christian denominations. Some ecumenical movements spring to mind...

    Well, I'm sure Catholics and Protestants have, but they are not real Christians.
    Ahaha... You do realise that Roman Catholicism is one of the older denominations and all... What denomination are you I wonder? And yes, they are defined as Christians. They are Christian denominations.

    So? I'm sure some versions even gay God loves everyone, but that doesn't mean anything. The Bible in it's original form is clear that it is God's word.
    'gay God'? BLASPHEMY! Yeah I'm just being lame too now.
    And like I said, you haven't read the bible in it's original form. Can you read Hebrew? I doubt it. I can't myself. Things have their meanings changed when translated, especially larger texts such as the bible.

    What does that have to do with God writing the Bible?
    I never said he did. I said people did. And people **** up. But believe what you want.

    Who told you such crapola?
    Half the ****ing history books I was forced to read when younger. And a few more I read out of genuine interest later so my thinking wouldn't be as flawed as those who didn't do that kind of research.

    Oh wait, you'll tell me the crusades WEREN'T full of evil. Please save it if that'll be the case. It's established in history that religion has caused a lot of problems through corrupt people messing with it. Or even just a lack of understanding.

    Ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek is easily translated. Just get any Bible concordance, and it will help out.
    I disagree. There'd have to be one pretty ****ing big concordance to help out with translating a several hundred page document full of messages that may or may not be clearly apparent.

    My church does have the original Bible, as any church can get, but my church took the time to write it's own version, which I even have an online .txt version of.
    Yeah, your church WROTE IT'S OWN VERSION. How is that the word of God then? It wasn't recorded by prophets, it was written by people in more modern times. If anything that would serve to make it even more inaccurate. And if it's only a .txt, that speaks highly of how big your denomination must be. .pdfs or even .doc or .rtf are the real standard. Why does this matter? It indicates to me that your denomination is smaller.

    We're not below understanding God. He's just like humans, just a bit more powerful.
    That IS utter blasphemy. He's omnipotent, all powerful. We're nothing compared to him. Unless you're really a Humanist in Christian clothing?

    And fundamentalist of what?
    Christianity, or more specifically whatever bible the fundamentalist in question has access to. In my experience most seem close minded to some extent and even downright psycho at times. Like talking about how killing isn't a sin and stuff. People like that scare me.

    No one is perfect, not even God. Anyone who says God is perfect is headed for Hell.
    God is perfect. That's blasphemy yet again. The real sort. Just because you don't know how He works doesn't make him imperfect. I don't know why He does as he does, but I feel it's for the best. He is almighty and omnipotent. If you are Christian you should show him some respect. He's your Lord after all.

    He communicates directly with us, so how could it be confusing?
    He doesn't though. Just a few select individuals. Maybe to test the faith of the rest of us, I have no idea. He speaks through select people and acts we may know as miracles.

    Christians act purely good and sinners act purely evil. There.
    So if a Christian mass slaughters a bunch of kids of another faith for no reason other than he's a psycho ****, that's purely good? Don't make me laugh mate, humans are humans. When we took the fruit of the tree of knowledge we gained the ability to know right from wrong and in turn choose either path. Original sin. And just as someone is Christian don't make him inherently good, just as non Christians aren't always evil.

    The Bible says Christians are incapable of sin, and how is pride related to that? And where does the Bible say pride is a sin? Is that some foolish Catholic concept?
    It doesn't. Not the true bible anyway.
    Proverbs 6:16 – 19 And yeah, catholics put their spin on things later, but pride was there in the bible. IT'S A SIN!

    What is the seven deadly sins?
    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Biblical references

    [edit] Proverbs 6:16 – 19

    In Proverbs 6:16 – 19, it is stated that "(16) These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:" (quotes from "King James Version (KJV)" translation of the Bible). These are:

    * (17) A proud look,
    * a lying tongue,
    * and hands that shed innocent blood,
    * (18) A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
    * feet that be swift in running to mischief,
    * (19) A false witness that speaketh lies,
    * and he that soweth discord among brethren.

    While there are seven of them, these sins are considerably different in outward appearance from the seven deadly sins list that arose later. The only sin which is clearly on both lists is Pride. "Hands that kill innocent people" could be taken to refer to Wrath. However, it is possible to imagine a case where cold blooded murder of an innocent would be one of the "hated things" without necessarily being an example of Wrath. Practices such as abortion, genocide, and euthanasia can be arguably covered under this umbrella of "hands that shed innocent blood."

    The remaining five of the "deadly sins" do not have even this loose correspondence to the "hated things", even if it is easy to imagine how they might lead someone to acting in one of the ways described in Proverbs. As previously stated, there is no where in the Bible where the traditional "seven deadly sins" are located or listed, although they are all condemned in various parts, along with several others. These "deadly sins" are not necessarily worse than any others that are listed. The Bible makes it clear throughout its New Testament that it only takes one sin, which is an act of disobeying God's law, to separate man from a perfect God, placing him in need of redemption and salvation.

    [edit] Other biblical references

    The list in Proverbs is not the only list of sins in the Bible. It does list them as "seven", but it is far from being an exhaustive listing of sins. Another list of sins is given in the book of (New Testament) Galatians 5:19-21. That list reads: (19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, (20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, (21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.(KJV)

    Wrath is mentioned specifically, but linked with Hate, includes the notions of hostility both acted upon and purely internalized. Envy/Jealousy is part of the list in Galatians. Greed is part of "selfish ambitions" from Galatians, but is also mirrored in Proverbs' "wicked plans." Gluttony is evident in "drunkenness and revellings", but also implied as the contrary of the virtue in Galatians 5:23 - "temperance" (self-control).

    Sloth is not listed in Galatians, but it can be found in verses such as Proverbs 6:6-10, "How long will you sleep, O sluggard?". Laziness is addressed in many other verses, though not necessarily labeled obviously as sin. In 1 Corinthians 3:8, a man is to receive "according to his labors". Similarly in Timothy 5:18, a laborer is worthy of his wages, with the implied converse being that the sluggard is not entitled to be fed or rewarded. He sins in living off others' labors.

    Pride is mentioned in Proverbs 16:18 "Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall."(KJV)

    [edit] Catholic virtues

    The Roman Catholic Church also recognizes seven holy virtues which correspond to each of the seven deadly sins.
    Vice Virtue
    Lust Chastity
    Gluttony Temperance
    Greed Charity
    Sloth Diligence
    Wrath Forgiveness
    Envy Kindness
    Pride Humility
    I took the liberty of bolding the parts involving pride. SO yeah, they do have their roots in the bible even if they were changed a bit

    Who said that?
    It should be a part of the morals/ethics system of a benevolent person. Or even just a decent person.

    That IS a good Christian attitude.
    No, it's what genocidal religious people use for justification of genocide.

    If you hear that in one of the towns, there are men who are telling people to go and worship other gods, it is your duty to look into the matter and examine it. If it is proved and confirmed, you must attack the inhabitants of that town with the edge of the sword. You must lay the town under the curse of destruction, the town and everything in it. You must pile up all its loot in the public square and burn the town and all its loot. That town is to be a ruin for all time, and never rebuilt.

    Deuteronomy 13:13-17
    Oh yeah, let's go old testament on those heathens asses! FIRE AND BRIMSTONE BABY! I'm not going to even bother pointing out a reference that destroys this point. The New Testament is full of the things.

    I don't disagree with that.
    No shit... Like I said, I threw it in your face. Geeze man you're making me write more than I really care to...

    God says it's right, so it's right.
    God doesn't say it's right. If you have a bible reference, show it. If you hear a voice in your head, there are asylums for that.

    Sort of is what? I kind of lost track, sorry.
    Calling killing by another names is still killing. And it's a sin. Thou shalt not kill. Whether justifiable or not, it's still wrong, and still a sin.

    Really? I think it's clear on everything it says. What is it not clear on?
    Everything. Even the greatest of scholars have had their hardships with bible interpretation. And you don't strike me as that great a scholar. And I wouldn't call myself the best exactly neither.

    Well, show me how you think my Bible version is corrupted.
    Show me your bible version and I'd only be too happy to. If it's not the original Holy Bible in Hebrew it won't contain every original intended meaning. People who excel at English will know what I mean. Especially those gifted with a talent for deciphering hidden messages.

    Where does Yahweh speak in mysterious ways? That's blasphemy there. The Lord talks directly.
    Then Yahweh spoke all these words.
    Exodus 20:1-3, 23:13, 22:20

    Yahweh used to talk to Moses face to face, as a man talks to a friend.
    Exodus 33:11

    Joshua 7:10
    Then Yahweh said to Joshua, 'Israel has taken something that was put under the curse of destruction. That is why the Israelites cannot stand up to their foes.'[/QUOTE]

    Aye. he spoke to Moses, Joshua and several other people. He doesn't seem to care to communicate to all people directly. I don't see what pointing these few examples out has to do with anything in the scheme of things.
    Last edited by Furore; 03-22-2008 at 05:41 AM.
    victoria aut mors

  19. #19
    Where does it say that? Show me. Or can't you? Because if you can't you're making me type for no good reason. And that's annoying.

    I'm still seeking how that has any relevance to anything really. We may find all answers after leaving this world for the next, but few answers to the questions that really matter are within easy reach.
    I just gave you the verse that showed how. Everything is knowable since God made it so, and said we can find it.


    Matthew 7:7 Seek and you will find.


    Ok, then, do you fully understand the soul?
    The soul is the part of us that God uses to determine whether he wants to punish us or not.

    Matthew 10:28

    Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Does someone you know? If a human can fully understand the soul I want a full explanation of it's workings.
    I just gave it to you.

    Failure to provide such an explanation will mean you were just talking shit. Success will leave me amazed. And I mean FULL explanation, or there is no understanding.
    Um...I just gave it to you. The Bible gives it to you.

    Evidence for many things and from many people. Check out the vast majority of intellectual discussion threads for example. This is more of a theological discussion though so it's very hard to say you definitely hold any answer. It's more a 'what you believe' type thing.
    What I believe in is the truth, which is the Bible.

    Well it makes sense.
    How does it make sense?

    ill God really just allow anyone who tries to be good yet sins horribly?
    Of course, God causes us to sin.

    I refuse to believe He's jerk enough to screw any good natured people over
    There are no good natured people, only those good enough to not sin, aka Christians.

    Saying other Christians promote blasphemy and evil.
    You just stated what I have stated, which is the truth.

    That's not cool man. It's dissing on the beliefs of others. And if you refuse to interact with others on the basis of religion, how does that make you a good person?
    I never said I completely refuse to, I just avoid them, since they are bad people.

    Nothing personal, but maybe you SHOULD chat with some of those 'evil' Roman Catholics.
    Okay sure, but I guarentee you he'll try to get me to worship his pope or some idol, and want me to become a practicing homosexual, and start opposing abortion, and other silly putrid nonsense.

    You're overusing the word 'blasphemous' to go with your opinions.
    Not true. I'm using blasphemous to go with what's against the Bible.

    That isn't something to do lightly, especially if you do not wish to cause offense.
    If the Bible offends you, you got big problems.

    As for the second bit. My penis is not in the bible. It exists.
    Yet the sacred penis is specifically mentioned in the Bible as existing.

    Kangaroos aren't in the bible, they exist. Want pictures?
    All animals are mentioned as existing in the Bible.

    I never said purgatory was a location. You're over reading into what I've written. A difference interpretation. To me purgatory is a process.
    That process is not mentioned in the Bible, thus it does not exist.

    I believe it exists yet do not even pretend to know how it goes about.
    Sounds like a foolish concept to me.

    And how do you know Jesus Christ is the only one who can? HUH HUH. (Half expects a 'because my bible says it here, here and here').
    Because the Bible says so. It's why I call myself a Christian. The word Christian comes from the book of Acts for that reason.

    God has the power to forgive ALL sins.
    God does not forgive anyones sins. Jesus Christ does. And while Christ does have the power to forgive all, he chooses not to. I wouldn't forgive all sins if I was Christ.

    We are all born with original sin, but God can forgive anything if he chooses. He is almighty.
    What the Hell is original sin?

    Well it's written by several dozen people over a great length of time in many different writing styles and contains things such as parables which may contain multiple meanings.
    Uh...that doesn't back up your claims what so ever.

    And other parts can seem to contain other messages as well.
    Which parts?

    Metaphors can be deceptive at times.
    How?

    There are many cryptic parts to the bible.
    Which parts?

    If there weren't everyone would have a perfect understanding and half the denominational splits may never have occurred.
    Not true. Satan is the great deceiver sent by God to make people not believe in him, it is God's strong delusion. The Catholic Church alone is the greatest Satanic organization on Earth, yet God let's it exist to test true Christians. So your point is mute.

    He made us as people. Not shafts filled with ink or whatever the stuff in lead pencils now is.
    The main purpose of a person is to worship God, and he uses us as pencils from time to time.

    And he doesn't physically pick a person up with one Godly hand and take over their body
    But he does. The Bible says so.

    Uhhhhh.... no. Why would God need pencils anyway? He revealed his message to some people and they recorded it the best they could. Prove me wrong.
    The Bible says your wrong, that's all the proof I need.

    By me, Drake and all the other people out there holding discussions such as these. And several gatherings of Christian denominations. Some ecumenical movements spring to mind...
    Well, those denominations are fools then. The Bible does tell us all denominations are headed for Hell.

    Ahaha... You do realise that Roman Catholicism is one of the older denominations and all...
    Who cares how old it is? It's still a bunch of idol worshiping fools who worship some old gay guy.

    What denomination are you I wonder?
    I'm non-denominational.

    And yes, they are defined as Christians. They are Christian denominations.
    Who defines them as Christians?

    {quote]And like I said, you haven't read the bible in it's original form. Can you read Hebrew?[/quote]

    Yes, I can. Do you think it's some sort of dead language or something? Millions of people still speak it on a daily basis. And all members of our church are well-versed in ancient Hebrew. Been taught it since I was little.

    Things have their meanings changed when translated, especially larger texts such as the bible.
    How so?

    I never said he did. I said people did. And people **** up. But believe what you want.
    God screws up too. What does that have to do with anything?

    Half the ****ing history books I was forced to read when younger.
    Then those history books are wrong.

    Oh wait, you'll tell me the crusades WEREN'T full of evil.
    I'll tell you they were, since they were Catholic vs. Muslim. Both idol worshiping fools.

    We can make the discussion about Christian history if you want, but things like the Holy Crusades, the Holy and Spanish Inquistions, Protestant Inquistions, Christians in China and South Vietnam, Army of God, Puritan Theocracies, those things don't relate to me since I am a true Christian.

    Please save it if that'll be the case. It's established in history that religion has caused a lot of problems through corrupt people messing with it. Or even just a lack of understanding.
    Who says that?

    I disagree. There'd have to be one pretty ****ing big concordance to help out with translating a several hundred page document full of messages that may or may not be clearly apparent.
    O..kay. Here's some Bible concordances for you:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong%27s_Concordance

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young%2...e_to_the_Bible

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruden%27s_concordance

    I guess you know nothing about the Bible.

    Yeah, your church WROTE IT'S OWN VERSION. How is that the word of God then?
    Because the word is unchanged? Because the Bible being in plain modern English is better than it being in older, harder to read languages?

    It wasn't recorded by prophets, it was written by people in more modern times.
    No it wasn't, it was written by prophets thousands of years ago, and that's why it's true.

    If anything that would serve to make it even more inaccurate. And if it's only a .txt, that speaks highly of how big your denomination must be. .pdfs or even .doc or .rtf are the real standard.
    Why would God before PDFs or DOCs. Why not a plain ol' .txt file? Simple=best.

    Why does this matter? It indicates to me that your denomination is smaller.
    I'm not in a denomination, but yes our church is small. The Bible makes it clear all churches should be small. How can someone excerise dicipline over ten thousand people in those hell bound evil mega churches? Money grubbing idol (that cross) worshiping fools.

    That IS utter blasphemy.
    How..?

    He's omnipotent, all powerful.
    Where does the Bible say he's omnipotent? It doesn't use that word to describe him. It clearly says he is not perfect, that he repents even for his sins, that he makes mistakes, and that he is just like us.

    We're nothing compared to him. Unless you're really a Humanist in Christian clothing?
    I'm not a Humanist, I'm just telling you what the Bible says.

    Christianity, or more specifically whatever bible the fundamentalist in question has access to. In my experience most seem close minded to some extent and even downright psycho at times.
    Who in particular?

    . Like talking about how killing isn't a sin and stuff. People like that scare me.
    I don't think killing is a sin.

    God is perfect. That's blasphemy yet again. The real sort.
    God is not perfect, and saying otherwise will send you to Hell.

    t because you don't know how He works doesn't make him imperfect. I don't know why He does as he does, but I feel it's for the best. He is almighty and omnipotent. If you are Christian you should show him some respect. He's your Lord after all.
    I do show Yahweh respect, by worshiping him. By saying he's perfect, you have kindled his wrath, and he will strike you down for defying him.

    He doesn't though. Just a few select individuals.
    Wrong, he talks directly with basically everyone. Saying otherwise is evil.

    Maybe to test the faith of the rest of us, I have no idea. He speaks through select people and acts we may know as miracles.
    The Bible never says that though.

    So if a Christian mass slaughters a bunch of kids of another faith for no reason other than he's a psycho ****, that's purely good?
    Yes, and the Bible backs up such behavior. America for example wouldn't be a doomed nation if we did that more often.

    Don't make me laugh mate, humans are humans. When we took the fruit of the tree of knowledge we gained the ability to know right from wrong and in turn choose either path. Original sin
    Eating the apple wasn't a sin, God got mad because he feared Adam and Eve, but soon enough he realized there was nothing to fear from them and they still worshiped him. So again, what is original sin?

    And just as someone is Christian don't make him inherently good, just as non Christians aren't always evil.
    What?

    It doesn't. Not the true bible anyway.
    Proverbs 6:16 – 19
    Here's what it says:

    16 There are six things the LORD hates,
    seven that are detestable to him:

    17 haughty eyes,
    a lying tongue,
    hands that shed innocent blood,

    18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
    feet that are quick to rush into evil,

    19 a false witness who pours out lies
    and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

    If anything, that describes you. But I wonder, what the Hell does that have to do with what I am talking about?

    No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

    1 John 3:9

    In Proverbs 6:16 – 19, it is stated that "(16) These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:" (quotes from "King James Version (KJV)" translation of the Bible). These are:

    * (17) A proud look,
    * a lying tongue,
    * and hands that shed innocent blood,
    * (18) A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
    * feet that be swift in running to mischief,
    * (19) A false witness that speaketh lies,
    * and he that soweth discord among brethren.
    You gave me a verse that does not mention what you are claiming. It says seven things God does not like:

    Haughty eyes as in being proud of sin

    Lying tounge, well obviously a big time liar, like most Christians.

    Hands that shed innocent blood, obviously murder.

    A heart that creates wickedness, as in Catholics and such.

    Feet that are quick to rush into evil, again Catholics.

    A false witness, or prophet. Again, Catholics.

    And a man who splits up a congregation. Again, Catholics.

    So this supposed seven deadly sins (they are not called as such, or listed as deadly) go against Catholicism in the first place.

    [edit] Catholic virtues
    I don't care what Catholics have to say about the Bible.

    SO yeah, they do have their roots in the bible even if they were changed a bit
    No, they don't.

    It should be a part of the morals/ethics system of a benevolent person. Or even just a decent person.
    Why?

    No, it's what genocidal religious people use for justification of genocide.
    Well, God did give us instructions on genocide, and he's clear that he is not against it.

    Oh yeah, let's go old testament on those heathens asses!
    It's more like let's go Bible on your ass

    [quote]FIRE AND BRIMSTONE BABY!{/quote]

    Fire and brimstone is not in the verse I gave.

    I'm not going to even bother pointing out a reference that destroys this point.
    Um, okay.

    The New Testament is full of the things.
    What things? What are you talking about? If you don't want me quoting the old testament, since in your dark heart you reject it, why did you quote Proverbs?

    Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law of Moses or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. In truth I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even the smallest stroke of a letter will pass away from The Law. So anyone who breaks the least of these commandments or teaches others to do so will be called "least" in the kingdom of heaven. But whoevever practices these commandments and teaches them will be called "great" in the kingdom of heaven. I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses the experts in The Law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Matthew 5:17-20

    No shit... Like I said, I threw it in your face. Geeze man you're making me write more than I really care to...
    If you don't want to write, than don't write.

    God doesn't say it's right. If you have a bible reference, show it.
    But if the man struck someone with an iron object so that he dies, he is a murderer and must be be put to death.

    Numbers 35:16

    That prophet must be put to death. You must banish this evil from among you.

    Deuteronomy 13:6

    For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

    Matthew 15:4-7

    Calling killing by another names is still killing. And it's a sin.
    No, it's not. Only murder is a sin.

    Thou shalt not kill.
    The word thous is not found in the Bible, but the words You must not murder are. It says murderers must be put to death, as in killing them.

    Everything. Even the greatest of scholars have had their hardships with bible interpretation.
    Name them. And if they did, they are in Hell.

    Show me your bible version and I'd only be too happy to. If it's not the original Holy Bible in Hebrew it won't contain every original intended meaning.
    But it does. What's your e-mail so I can send it.

    People who excel at English will know what I mean. Especially those gifted with a talent for deciphering hidden messages.
    Can you teach me this talent?

    Aye. he spoke to Moses, Joshua and several other people. He doesn't seem to care to communicate to all people directly.
    But he does.

    I don't see what pointing these few examples out has to do with anything in the scheme of things.
    I think they do, since theres more examples where they came from. God talks to people directly, and never stopped.

  20. #20
    ...means nothing to no way Furore's Avatar
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    Ok these posts are getting too long. I'll try to be brief.
    If you belong to a congregation, they ARE a denomination as they are a grouping of Christians with shared beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    A Christian denomination is an identifiable religious body under a common name, structure, and/or doctrine within larger Christianity.
    So yeah, you're not non-denominational.

    And here's an article on tolerance in the bible. Enjoy, it's all from the good book.
    Quote Originally Posted by B A Robinson
    RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE IN THE BIBLE

    The word "tolerance" does not occur in the Bible. At least, it does not appear in three common English translations: King James Version, New King James and American Standard Version.

    There are very few Biblical passages that promote tolerance, in comparison with its many instances of religious intolerance.

    We could only find one reference in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) - and it was a vague prophecy about religious peace, at some undefined time in the future. There are only a handful of examples in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament). Most of them deal with tolerance by one Christian to another.

    An overall theme of the Bible is religious exclusivity and intolerance.

    Religious Tolerance in the Hebrew Scriptures:
    World religions at peace with each other: The prophet Micah prophesied about a coming time when nations will stop making war. The various peoples of the world will live in peace and pursue their different religions, each worshipping their different Gods and Goddesses. Meanwhile, the Jews will continue to follow Jehovah. His prophesy came to pass for the known western world during the Roman Empire where religious were generally tolerated (except for the intermittent persecution of Christians). There has not been any period since the fall of the Roman Empire when tolerance of religious minorities has been generally observed worldwide.
    Micah 4:3-5 "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hat spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever." (KJV)

    Religious Tolerance in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament):
    Tolerance of other types of "Christianity": Jesus' disciples had rejected a healer who was exorcising demons in Jesus' name, yet was not one of Jesus direct followers. Jesus criticized his disciples and accepted the healer. Mark and Luke report the incident in parallel passages:
    Mark 9:38-40 "...we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbade him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part." (KJV)
    Luke 9:49-50 "...we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."

    Jesus refused to curse non-believers: Jesus' teachings were rejected by the inhabitants of a village in Samaria. His disciples asked that he exterminate the people of the village by issuing a curse. Jesus refused to do it, and simply move on to the next village.
    Luke 9:52-56: "...they did not receive him...And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village."

    Jesus treats a Samaritan women with respect: Jesus initiates a conversation with a Samaritan woman in Sychar, Samaria. This is unusual in at least two ways: Jewish men did not talk to women who were not their wives or were not from their family. Also, Jews normally treated Samaritans with contempt. Jews did not have dealings with them, because they had deviated from Judaism.
    John 4:7-27: "There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink...Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water...Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father...And upon this came his disciples, and marveled that he talked with the woman..."


    Christians treating Jews with respect: The author of Luke and Acts comments that the Jews in Berea were more noble, fair-minded and receptive than the Jews of Thessalonica.
    Acts 17:10-13 "And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few."

    Tolerance of Pagans towards Christians: Paul was under house arrest in Rome for two years. The government granted him religious freedom and did not forbid him to preach.
    Acts 28:30-31 "And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him."

    Acceptance of non-Christians into Heaven: A common and often preached message in the Christian Scriptures is that trusting in Jesus is the only way to be saved, and that only those persons who hear the Gospel and accept it will attain Heaven. However Romans 2:14-16 delivers a different and contrasting message. Paul writes: "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." Paul is here discussing those individuals who have not heard of the Mosaic law. Their lives will be reviewed on Judgment Day; they may be saved and attain heaven if they performed sufficient good works while alive on Earth.


    Toleration of fellow Christians: St. Paul commented on the range of beliefs among Christians. It was not unlike the variety of beliefs and practices seen among Christian denominations today. He called for intra-faith harmony. Paul urged believers to be tolerant of others who may follow different dietary rules, or hold religious services on a different day. He recommends that believers avoid doing anything that might make a fellow believer stumble in this faith.
    Romans 14:1-23 "Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him...One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind...But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ...Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way." (NKJ)

    Avoid offending followers of other religions: St. Paul commented on the dietary habits of Christians.
    1 Corinthians 10:31-32 "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:"

    - http://www.religioustolerance.org/tol_bibl.htm
    And regardless of what you say, I get the feeling that I'll always believe that God is perfect.

    Matthew 10:28

    Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
    That says not what the soul is, merely that it does not share the body's fate necessarily.

    Who cares how old it is? It's still a bunch of idol worshiping fools who worship some old gay guy.
    Better than worshiping some hateful genocidal prick in my opinion.

    Okay sure, but I guarentee you he'll try to get me to worship his pope or some idol, and want me to become a practicing homosexual, and start opposing abortion, and other silly putrid nonsense.
    Actually that was why I left the catholic church. Because most were for being jerks to minorities. But whatever floats your boat. Do you think Jesus hated gays, abortionists and even... *gasp* popes?

    If anything, that describes you. But I wonder, what the Hell does that have to do with what I am talking about?
    It's the roots of the seven deadly sins. Which you went on to say weren't to do with what you were talking about DESPITE questioning them in previous posts.

    And yes, because I have an independent thought or ten in my head and have not been brainwashed by some small Christian denomination I am indeed evil. Just like 99.9999% of other people in the world. Sucks to be us.

    No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

    1 John 3:9
    Every man is born of God, for he is our creator. If we're not capable of sinning, then what's with all the sinning I see?

    Matthew 7:7 Seek and you will find.
    Unless you're beyond reason I guess. But then like I keep repeating, few answers worth reaching are all that easily obtainable. I get the feeling most answers we'll find later.

    I'll finish with this. Don't be such a hater. It's the extremists that **** people over. I wouldn't be surprised if those Muslim extremists are like fundamentalists who scream 'Allah' rather than 'Yahweh'. Regardless, I see it as disrespectful to God waving around his name and supposed desires like that. He's God, not us.
    victoria aut mors

  21. #21
    vevuxking102

    All your hate of catholic us just stupid.
    Christianity stems from the Catholic faith.
    That's history in the books.

    You're just hating yourself by doing so.


    Let me ask you:

    If your preacher, at your church, had a malicious intent, and commanded you to commit genocide in the name of God, with the real intent of wiping out rivals or such, Would you do it? Never knowing if it was the preacher's words or God's?

    You assume it is, full in your belief that it's true, never knowing that it is.

    Where in the bible does it specifically say everything you said?
    Quote it perfectly.


    Another thing. You said it yourself, that interpretations are all false, yet just above you said that your church had its own interpretation of the bible.

    It contradicts itself completely.




    Remember this, if you do preform acts of hatred with intent to kill or disfigure anyone, for whatever reason, As long as I have the ability, I will stop you. And every rational person in the world will too.
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  22. #22
    Ok these posts are getting too long. I'll try to be brief.
    I'm sorry about that, I apologize.

    If you belong to a congregation, they ARE a denomination as they are a grouping of Christians with shared beliefs.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wikipedia
    A Christian denomination is an identifiable religious body under a common name, structure, and/or doctrine within larger Christianity.
    So yeah, you're not non-denominational.

    And here's an article on tolerance in the bible. Enjoy, it's all from the good book.
    No...maybe you need to get your definitions straight:


    In Christianity, the term non-denominational refers to those churches that have not formally aligned themselves with an established denomination, or remain otherwise officially autonomous. This, however, does not preclude an identifiable standard among such congregations. Non-denominational congregations may establish a functional denomination by means of mutual recognition of or accountability to other congregations and leaders with commonly held doctrine, policy and worship without formalizing external direction or oversight in such matters. Some non-denominational churches explicitly reject the idea of a formalized denominational structure as a matter of principle, holding that each congregation must be autonomous.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-denominational

    Originally Posted by B A Robinson
    RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE IN THE BIBLE

    The word "tolerance" does not occur in the Bible. At least, it does not appear in three common English translations: King James Version, New King James and American Standard Version.
    But I don't care what those articles on those heathen websites say. Why should I care when they don't use the Bible?

    For example, that page you cite says:

    Avoid offending followers of other religions: St. Paul commented on the dietary habits of Christians.
    1 Corinthians 10:31-32 "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:"

    - http://www.religioustolerance.org/tol_bibl.htm
    For none, they refer to Paul as a Saint, yet there are no such things as Saints, and the very idea is blasphemous.

    Here's what 1 Corinthians really says:

    10:7 says to avoid those who worship Idols, such as Catholics.

    10:8 Paul warns of of what happened to the Moabites in the book of Numbers. If you don't know (you probably don't), Moses and the Israelities killed 23,000 of them for defying them.

    10:9 If you tempt Christ, he will send snakes to kill you.

    10:10 if you murmur, God will destroy you.

    10:20 All gentiles sacrifice to Satan.

    And regardless of what you say, I get the feeling that I'll always believe that God is perfect.
    Then you're headed for Hell.

    That says not what the soul is, merely that it does not share the body's fate necessarily.
    That's all that understanding a soul means.

    Better than worshiping some hateful genocidal prick in my opinion.
    Why would you worship some old fool who can't even go to the bathroom on his own? Why do you worship anyone but Yahweh? The Pope IS NOT GOD! ALL POPES ARE IN HELL!

    Actually that was why I left the catholic church. Because most were for being jerks to minorities. But whatever floats your boat. Do you think Jesus hated gays, abortionists and even... *gasp* popes?
    Of course Jesus hates gays, and all popes, but he doesn't hate abortionist. Why would he? God loves abortion.

    It's the roots of the seven deadly sins. Which you went on to say weren't to do with what you were talking about DESPITE questioning them in previous posts.
    There are no seven deadly sins though. The Bible never mentions them, and they probably come from some catholic pulling them out of his ass. They are fools.


    And yes, because I have an independent thought or ten in my head and have not been brainwashed by some small Christian denomination I am indeed evil. Just like 99.9999% of other people in the world. Sucks to be us.
    It does indeed suck to be you.

    Every man is born of God, for he is our creator. If we're not capable of sinning, then what's with all the sinning I see?
    God is making them sin? God makes people sin, he makes people not believe in him, he is the creator of evil. Not everyone is born of God, that is a blasphemous concept. Being born of God is accepting Jesus.

    Unless you're beyond reason I guess. But then like I keep repeating, few answers worth reaching are all that easily obtainable. I get the feeling most answers we'll find later.
    Not true.

    Matthew 7:7 Seek and you will find.

    I'll finish with this. Don't be such a hater. It's the extremists that **** people over. I wouldn't be surprised if those Muslim extremists are like fundamentalists who scream 'Allah' rather than 'Yahweh'.
    How are they at all similar?

    Regardless, I see it as disrespectful to God waving around his name and supposed desires like that. He's God, not us.
    God is just like us though.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    All your hate of catholic us just stupid.
    Christianity stems from the Catholic faith.
    That's history in the books.
    Uh...show me it. Don't Catholics claim to be some sort of Christian, not the other way around?

    If your preacher, at your church, had a malicious intent, and commanded you to commit genocide in the name of God, with the real intent of wiping out rivals or such, Would you do it? Never knowing if it was the preacher's words or God's?
    He'd only do that if God commanded him to say that, and since the Bible does command that, the answer is yes.

    You assume it is, full in your belief that it's true, never knowing that it is.

    Where in the bible does it specifically say everything you said?
    Quote it perfectly.
    I've already quoted it. Look above.

    Another thing. You said it yourself, that interpretations are all false, yet just above you said that your church had its own interpretation of the bible.
    It does not have the interpretations of the Bible, it has The Bible.


    It contradicts itself completely.
    How?


    Remember this, if you do preform acts of hatred with intent to kill or disfigure anyone, for whatever reason, As long as I have the ability, I will stop you. And every rational person in the world will too.
    Uh..okay. Try and stop me...?
    Last edited by vevuxking102; 03-22-2008 at 03:51 PM.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Draken Benvolaid View Post
    Christianity stems from the Catholic faith.
    That is the silliest thing I have heard in all of 2008, and this includes meeting people who voted for Mike Huckabee.

    It is interesting to see how many different versions of the Ten Commandments there are. Really, there are twelve "rules", and they are bunched up differently according to Orthodox, Catholicism, Protestantism, etc. The Jewish version actually has the rule of "I am the Lord Your God" as the preface to the actual Ten Commandments.

    As to what I think, eh. Most of it is a common rule of law. It isn't really all that different from Hammurabi's Code in that regard. I will covet my neighbor's wife if I please, however.

  24. #24
    What do you guys think of the Ten Commandments (Ten Words)? Jin's Avatar
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    "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife/property."

    "You shall not make for yourself an idol."

    To reconcile these two, God forgot to tack onto the former, "but I may covet other Gods' worshipers."

    Joking aside, the 10 commandments are fairly useless to those that don't give a hoot about Abraham. The do not kill/do not steal stuff is just common sense for a working society and exists in many other places, as James pointed out, so it's not as if it'd be anarchy without them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vevu
    ALL POPES ARE IN HELL!
    Virgil took you on a journey too, did he?
    Last edited by Jin; 03-22-2008 at 09:28 AM.

    Until now!


  25. #25
    Special Agent Scullder. Unknown Entity's Avatar
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    I believe the Ten Commandments to be just out-dated laws. Back in the day, they would of been of great use to me, but now... they have no meaning. I could follow the Ten Commandments, but no one else will. People would still stab a random person because they feel the need to protect their 'post code' lol... I'd also forget what they are after a while, and start to... er... what the term? ah yes, 'sin'.


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  26. #26
    You shall not covet your neighbor's wife/property.
    Where did you get that from? The Bible doesn't say that, at least in that wording.

    "You shall not make for yourself an idol.
    The Bible doesn't say that either.

    You shall not make yourself a carved image or any likeness or drawing or representation of anything in the heavens above, or on earth beneath, or in the waters below the earth.

    Exodus 20:4


    The do not kill/do not steal stuff is just common sense for a working society and exists in many other places, as James pointed out, so it's not as if it'd be anarchy without them.
    The Bible never says do not kill. It says do not murder. Moses killed many right after receiving the Ten Words, so how could killing be bad?


    Virgil took you on a journey too, did he?
    Who's Virgil?


    It is interesting to see how many different versions of the Ten Commandments there are. Really, there are twelve "rules", and they are bunched up differently according to Orthodox, Catholicism, Protestantism, etc.
    Yes, and those are all evil branches of Christianity.


    The Jewish version actually has the rule of "I am the Lord Your God" as the preface to the actual Ten Commandments.
    That is the beginning of the Ten Words, yes:

    Then Yahweh spoke all these words. He said, 'I am Yahweh your God. You shall have no other gods before me. Do not mention the name of any other god -- let none ever be heard from your lips. Anyone who sacrifices to other gods must be destroyed.'

    Exodus 20:1-3, 23:13, 22:20

    Despite the fact that Jews are the real nazis, I can admire they at least get that right.


    As to what I think, eh. Most of it is a common rule of law. It isn't really all that different from Hammurabi's Code in that regard. I will covet my neighbor's wife if I please, however.
    Why would you want to covet someone elses spouse?

  27. #27
    What do you guys think of the Ten Commandments (Ten Words)? Jin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vevu
    Where did you get that from? The Bible doesn't say that, at least in that wording.

    The Bible doesn't say that either.

    You shall not make yourself a carved image or any likeness or drawing or representation of anything in the heavens above, or on earth beneath, or in the waters below the earth.

    Exodus 20:4

    The Bible never says do not kill. It says do not murder. Moses killed many right after receiving the Ten Words, so how could killing be bad?
    Well, no, actually it would say something in Hebrew if you want to be that stupidly technical about it. Now, are you serious? If there ever was a way to break up a debate by being petty and irrelevant, there it is. This is the way to lose a spouce.
    Last edited by Jin; 03-22-2008 at 07:07 PM.

    Until now!


  28. #28
    I was asking where the Bible says killing is wrong. Moses, one of the greatest people who ever lived, was also a great killer, and the Bible makes it clear his mass killings made God happy. There is a clear distinction between killing and murder, and God does like killing, just not murder.

    Also, about spouses, I've never had one and never will, so what makes you think I lost one?

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by vevuxking102 View Post
    about spouses, I've never had one and never will
    I said that too!

    You missed the BoD by about a month. You would have fit in well.

    Everything Jin said is pretty much true. They may not be in the Bible in the exact wording, but you know what he meant.

    I am trying to figure out what you are. I have the following clues.

    Quote Originally Posted by vevu
    Moses, one of the greatest people who ever lived
    Quote Originally Posted by vevu
    Yes, and those are all evil branches of Christianity.
    Quote Originally Posted by vevu
    the fact that Jews are the real nazis
    I am going to go out on a limb. Are you Fred Phelps?

    EDIT: Jin, it is not fair that you know my real name and I don't know yours. I cannot call you Jin now that you have changed your username, and I will not follow you among Roman emperors.

  30. #30
    I said that too!

    You missed the BoD by about a month. You would have fit in well.
    What's a BoD?

    Everything Jin said is pretty much true. They may not be in the Bible in the exact wording, but you know what he meant.
    How is anything he said represented in the Bible? And who's Jin? I'm assuming it's the guy with the Roman statue in his signature.

    I am going to go out on a limb. Are you Fred Phelps?
    Well, that would be correct, just the genders, age, and location are completely different. But you are sort of close, mentally. My church was once united with the Westboro Baptist Church, but they split ways before I was even born.

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