Misandry

[Baneheart]

NOTE: This thread is a bit long, as well as the linked article below. Taken some time to read it all. I'd also like to note that any flaming, irrelevant insults, or "ganging up" on anyone will not be tolerated. I'm not looking for a war against the genders or to "bash women", so act properly when responding. Thank you.

I would like everyone to take a good look at this article and a moment of their time to read it, (it's rather long). Once you have read it, look below to find out what this thread is about.

Do Not Respect Them | MND: News and Commentary Since 2001

As few of you may know (or not know since this is not a widely known subject--or popular for that matter), misandry is becoming more and more of a frequent occurence these days. What is misandry?

mis·an·dry /ˈmɪsændri/ Pronunciation [mis-an-dree]
–noun
1. hatred of males.

That's right, a hatred of males; a hatred that is becoming so radical that it's already infected our legal system, marriage, and family life. Moreso is it affecting our children.

Anyway, hopefully you've read the article I pasted above and took a moment to think about what I'm talking about.

In modern times, more men are being stripped from their children, demonized and ridiculed as being violent rapist/abusers, and overall discriminated, particularly for their rights.

One common occurrence happens with disgruntled women. These women put together false allegations and lies towards their intimate partner in order to get something and in the process, hurt their intimate partner.

Take for example this case, Barbara Grieg, US State Department, facilitates International Child Abduction www.TheReaganWing.com

In the article, this is what happened.

In February 2003 Fuith decided to leave Hindle and return to the U.S. She knew he would object to her taking Emily, so she did what many women in her position have done. She accused him of domestic violence and sexual abuse of children. Thanks to VAWA, she needed only to speak the words.

Fuith was taken in by a battered women’s shelter, and given free legal aid by the U.S. government. With no evidence and no due process, Barbara Grieg authorized the illegal abduction. The U.S. Embassy in London issued a passport for Emily without her father’s signature as required by law. The forged signature was not notarized, and had the wrong date.

Now, because of this, Hindle was arrested without any evidence supporting Fuith's claims, but also had lost his daughter as Fuith illegally took Faith (the daughter) with her back to the U.S..

Because of these actions taken by Fuith, her daughter soon lost the eyesight in her right eye due to the discontinuance of this little girl's treatment as she was born with esotropia. Esotropia is a form of strabismus, or "squint", in which one or both eyes turns inward (taken from wiki). Afterwards, Fuith then decided to switch Faith into the custody of Leslie Merriam, a convicted pedophile.

These are just a few actions taken by this woman that have resulted in abuse of her own daughter and husband. Currently, Hindle has been freed, the courts ruled Fuith has lied about everything, and despite all that, this man hasn't seen his daughter in two years NOR has his wife been put in jail for her blatant crimes.

This is just ONE tragedy out of hundreds of other similar cases. False allegations and assumed abuse are as common as the setting sun itself and only recently have people began to notice. It's the tip of the iceberg.

The other thing is this commonly seen ideal that men are punching bags. In A LOT of commercials, women hitting men are accepted to be "funny" while the commercial itself really isn't.

Here's a perfect example: GlennSacks.com Blog Archive You'd Think That by Now They'd Know Better...

Of course, this is only a commercial. Years ago, I probably would have moved on and ignored it, but the problem here is how frequent such commercials are all over the world. As men have become down-scaled and discriminated when it comes to this domestic violence, it also becomes normalized into our society as an "everyday" thing. If the genders were reversed and it was a man hitting a woman, feminist and the like would be up in arms. It's a contradiction that has hurt society. Lastly, there's the family life.

Men, specifically fathers, have been pushed out the equation. They are, again, seen as abusive drunkards/junkies who either abuse their wife or their child. Because of this repeated image, mothers are usually given custody of the child when intimate partners leave one another. In the courts, it's even worse because ANY woman can issue a restraining order, kick a man out of his own house, and stop him from seeing his kids. All a restraining order OR allegation needs is a woman's words without presented evidence and a man can be arrested immediately. I kid you not.

With such things happening, most household's these days are single mothers with kids. This affects the children because they're put through hell when it comes to divorce. Not only that, but 70% of inmates in prisons come from single parent (usually mothers) households. I won't go as far to say that "it's women's fault", but the increasing violence in children or children who grow up to become criminals seem to have a connection with that fact.

Hell, Obama not too long ago addressed the issue about black mother's having a child and the father leaving. Apparently, this is such a common occurrence that is has drastically hurt the black community with kids who jump into thug life and the like. With children who have no fathers, it seems more likely that something will go wrong.

Having said all of that, what is your views on such common occurrences such as false reports of abuse/domestic violence, how much the legal system favors women, and how it affects family life?

[Koda]

I did read the article. And though I do agree with the vast majority, it isn't absolutely accurate on all women. It's true that in today's times, men do get a bad rap for numerous things. However, being one of the women that has gone through extreme abuse, I am guilty of 'man bashing' because of the baggage I carry. Just as some men 'women bash'. Not all women are out to get men. I'm not anyway. However, given my past, it is difficult to trust men now. I'm in now way saying that it's right, but until I work through my own battles, I myself have trust issues. Right or wrong, but I will be the first to admit my own faults. But I have seen myself how some women play men to get what they want. And if they don't get it, well, that's when the games begins. I don't agree with it, and think it is very wrong, but that is how it is now days.

It is true that the legal system doesn't always look at the real truth, many more times than not, they look at the 'gender' truth. Although I will say, that here where I live, there are more men getting custody of their children than ever before. And that is simply because the women are being proven unfit.

As far as false statements and charges go, I personally believe that once the truth comes out, and accusations that were made maliciously and were untrue, the guilty party should be charged accordingly and face their judge and jury. No one should have to go through that sort of thing unjustifiably, male or female. It just isn't right.

Now for the wages. That all started during the 'Women's Movement' in the sixties. Burning bra's and protesting for equal rights. If you look back before that time, women were stay at home mom's, they cooked, cleaned, took care of everything, and basically kept quiet about any matters that would upset or anger their husbands. The men were the kings of the castle, and anything that went on behind closed doors were kept secret regardless of the severity. Back then certain things just weren't discussed or brought to anyone's attention outside of the home. Then as time went by, the women became tired of being second class citizens. They began working outside of the home, and began standing their ground. It just grew from there. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing either. However, that's not to say that there weren't women being the abusers either.

I do believe that if a woman has the same qualifications as a man for a job, she should receive the same pay. But let's face it, there are some jobs in this world that women just aren't built to do. It may be true that some women that are bench pressers or weight lifters might be able to do the jobs that require a lot of strength, but honestly, we weren't built for those types of jobs. And any woman that will stand there and say she can do anything any man can do is full of it. I'm a woman, and I know my limitations. I can say that I would give it my best shot, and I might do pretty well. But when it comes right down to it, our bodies weren't designed for the 'heavy' work.
I believe in equality, as well as equal pay as long as the experience and/or abilities are justified. No one should be passed by on any employment because of gender or race.

It's really sad, looking at today's world, and seeing just how backwards everything is going. Men, Women, and children being killed, kidnapped, etc. because one doesn't want the other to have custody. Or one just doesn't want the other to go on without them, so they kill everyone including themselves. That might be a little off of the topic, but it all fits in. Justice rarely prevails, and in many cases, the innocent are the ones that are prosecuted and/or given no justice at all.

And now we have criminals, male and female, that cry...my childhood was so bad. I was abused. That is their defense. Bull****. When I was a kid we got our butts beat with a belt, and we learned from that. And I'm not 'scarred' from it. I am responsible for my own actions. It's ridiculous that any court, or attorney, should even be allowed to use such a defense. Whatever happened to anyone when they were a child has no bearing on what they do as an adult. We all have a mind, we all make choices every day. And we all know right from wrong. If you chose do to wrong, then pay the price. Simple as that. If you take a life, don't blame Johnny from the second grade because he beat you up so bad, you've held your anger in your entire life, and just couldn't take it anymore, so you snapped and took a life. That's BS.

Our justice system leaves so much to be desired. That is where I believe we should take on some of the tactics of third world countries, to an extent. And plea bargaining....don't even get me started. Like I said..if you do the crime, do the time and don't cry about it.

I know my opinions aren't in the order that your post read, but I did try to get most of it in here. One last point:

Everyone that gets together and starts up their little 'hate' groups are pathetic. Hatred does nothing but start problems everywhere. All of these 'organizations' that protest for whatever their cause might be, are sad little people that someone pissed off, and now they want their 15 minutes of fame. If people would work as hard to get along as they do to cause pain and problems, the world would be a much better place.

[Baneheart]

Originally Posted by Koda

I did read the article. And though I do agree with the vast majority, it isn't absolutely accurate on all women. It's true that in today's times, men do get a bad rap for numerous things. However, being one of the women that has gone through extreme abuse, I am guilty of 'man bashing' because of the baggage I carry. Just as some men 'women bash'. Not all women are out to get men. I'm not anyway.

That's a fair assessment. My thread is to point out the majority of women who are accurately portrayed as radical misandrist.

Originally Posted by Koda

However, given my past, it is difficult to trust men now. I'm in now way saying that it's right, but until I work through my own battles, I myself have trust issues. Right or wrong, but I will be the first to admit my own faults. But I have seen myself how some women play men to get what they want. And if they don't get it, well, that's when the games begins. I don't agree with it, and think it is very wrong, but that is how it is now days.

I'm the same way actually. My past experiences has made me distrusting of the other gender, particularly American women to a point of where I feel like I'll need to document everything I do incase a woman decides to falsely accuse me of something. Many men feel that way honestly. It's good for you to see your own faults, however, as everyone, men and women, should do that from time to time.

Originally Posted by Koda

It is true that the legal system doesn't always look at the real truth, many more times than not, they look at the 'gender' truth. Although I will say, that here where I live, there are more men getting custody of their children than ever before. And that is simply because the women are being proven unfit.

That's good to hear. I'm glad there is such a place beginning to realize these things.

Originally Posted by Koda

As far as false statements and charges go, I personally believe that once the truth comes out, and accusations that were made maliciously and were untrue, the guilty party should be charged accordingly and face their judge and jury. No one should have to go through that sort of thing unjustifiably, male or female. It just isn't right.

I by all means agree, lol. In fact, most of the people who have similar beliefs as I do also agree that if someone lies and it hurts their partner/family, then they should face some form of punishment. The problem is that more women generally don't face ANY punishment whatsoever or get a slap on the wrist. Women who lied and claim false allegations have ruined their partner's lives, and even their children's lives. It's a terrible thing such women get away with such things.

That's not the worst of it, however, as recently Harriet Harman, a known extreme feminist, is trying to pass a new law so that the legal defense of "I have been abused for a long time--"..."he provoked me"...and similar excuses can be OFFICIAL DEFENSES for women who kill their intimate partner. Here's an article about it.

Go soft on killer wives: Women who kill in cold blood could escape murder charge | Mail Online

Originally Posted by Koda

I do believe that if a woman has the same qualifications as a man for a job, she should receive the same pay. But let's face it, there are some jobs in this world that women just aren't built to do. It may be true that some women that are bench pressers or weight lifters might be able to do the jobs that require a lot of strength, but honestly, we weren't built for those types of jobs. And any woman that will stand there and say she can do anything any man can do is full of it. I'm a woman, and I know my limitations. I can say that I would give it my best shot, and I might do pretty well. But when it comes right down to it, our bodies weren't designed for the 'heavy' work.
I believe in equality, as well as equal pay as long as the experience and/or abilities are justified. No one should be passed by on any employment because of gender or race.

Again, I completely agree. Sadly, a lot of feminist don't and may even KNOW that even though it's discriminatory, they'd still rather see a woman paid the salary of a manager when they just started as a regular employee only because the manager is a man. They won't stop pushing until they get what they want or the courts actually push back.

Originally Posted by Koda

It's really sad, looking at today's world, and seeing just how backwards everything is going. Men, Women, and children being killed, kidnapped, etc. because one doesn't want the other to have custody. Or one just doesn't want the other to go on without them, so they kill everyone including themselves. That might be a little off of the topic, but it all fits in. Justice rarely prevails, and in many cases, the innocent are the ones that are prosecuted and/or given no justice at all.

It's always sad when you look at today's world, lol. Such things happen everyday and it's gone on without any notice, particularly since a lot of the mainstream media downplays such things or paints it in a politically correct view.

Originally Posted by Koda

And now we have criminals, male and female, that cry...my childhood was so bad. I was abused. That is their defense. Bull****. When I was a kid we got our butts beat with a belt, and we learned from that. And I'm not 'scarred' from it. I am responsible for my own actions. It's ridiculous that any court, or attorney, should even be allowed to use such a defense. Whatever happened to anyone when they were a child has no bearing on what they do as an adult. We all have a mind, we all make choices every day. And we all know right from wrong. If you chose do to wrong, then pay the price. Simple as that. If you take a life, don't blame Johnny from the second grade because he beat you up so bad, you've held your anger in your entire life, and just couldn't take it anymore, so you snapped and took a life. That's BS.

You got that right. We, as a society, have to take more responsibility for the things we do and as long as we continue to fight over such meaningless things such as who had the worse childhood, nothing will ever change. In fact, it may get worse. I mean look at this chart.

Arrest of women and children from 2002 to 2007

Women have been arrested an increasing 10% EACH YEAR and our children, while having decreased in violence, is slowly begin to become more violent as well.

Originally Posted by Koda

I know my opinions aren't in the order that your post read, but I did try to get most of it in here.

It's fine.

Originally Posted by Koda

One last point:

Everyone that gets together and starts up their little 'hate' groups are pathetic. Hatred does nothing but start problems everywhere. All of these 'organizations' that protest for whatever their cause might be, are sad little people that someone pissed off, and now they want their 15 minutes of fame. If people would work as hard to get along as they do to cause pain and problems, the world would be a much better place.

I know, it is rather pathetic. The thing is, these hate groups sometimes pose as groups that are suppose to help people, though underneath they have a hidden agenda. Like for example this woman's shelter. Take a look at this article.

Another Way Shelter Headed for a Meltdown? | MND: News and Commentary Since 2001

That's truly horrifying.

Thanks for responding to the thread btw.

[Pete]

I have to agree that while the world is still mostly male- dominated, there are many aspects in which men have no leg to stand on... and quite frankly it's pretty sad.

Take for instance the way men are stripped of their kids in family courts after divorces. While it is logical that the mother is supposed to be the nurturer, there are plenty of unfit mothers out there, who abuse the system in order to hang onto their kids. Just look at most divorces in America and abroad. In very rare cases, the father gets custody. On top of that, the men are left to pay both alimony and child support. This baffles me and bothers me. I can understand that whichever party does not get custody should pay for child support, but alimony is just a form of restitution so that the wife can get back on her feet, so to speak. Now, why, if the two parties are divorced, should the husband be forced to pay for his ex-wife, when clearly they are no longer married.

Is society telling me that a woman is incapable of finding a job, or a job that can pay decently? Technically, isn't this a double standard then, or exploitation at best? Judges give women the power in a sense by favoring them in court cases by rewarding them with their children and things such as alimony, but at the same time, the very payment of alimony is a statement that women are incapable of surviving without a male's support.



I also have to agree with Nathan on the subject of any type of interpersonal relationships or relations with women. It's incredibly hard to be trusting these days, just as it's incredibly difficult to try and make a move with a girl unless you have a signed waiver, notarized and photocopied in triplicate, that you wont be deemed guilty of anything ranging from sexual harassment to rape. It's a scary feeling to wake up the next morning after a random hookup wondering if the cops will come knocking on your door. It happened to a friend of mine once, who wound up taking a girls virginity because they were both incredibly drunk. His only saving grace was that all of her friends knew she was less drunk than him (think incredibly sloppy as opposed to blackout) and she had essentially forced him to perform. The next day he was picked up by the cops and had to tell his story... which he remembered none of. Blowing a .13 at noon the day after was proof to the cops that he was near comatose. Despite the lesson in drunken antics, it taught us all a lesson, and made us all a little distrusting of the female species.


On my last topic... I'm also not a fan of affirmative action, at all. I don't think it's fair that more qualified people are denied jobs because there are too many people of that race or gender already doing it. Take firefighters for example. If my home is burning down and my family needs to be rescued, I want the very best people for the job to be coming down the block in their fire truck. If 15 white guys scored the best, then they should be given the jobs. If it's 15 women, then let them come. What bothers me, as it does Koda, is when women complain about equal pay. For office jobs, I can totally agree with this; women should get paid the same as men, if they are doing the same work at the same skill level. I also think that in comparison to men, women are physiologically weaker and not capable of lifting as much, etc as men, and for that reason, should not be working certain jobs, like construction and the like, simply because it would be more productive to have a male there. Naturally, a male who could lift and accomplish what the job demands.



And thats all I have to say. Night folks!

[DragonHeart]

I stopped reading that article after the first few paragraphs. Lots of big words and vitriol, and as per usual with blog rantings, no supporting evidence. Sure, there are hardcore feminists out there and bottom feeding scum profiting off the misfortune of others, but that's hardly new, nor is it indicative of a downward spiral. It also isn't isolated to just men, it happens to plenty of women too, he's just ignoring that particular fact. He's basically labeling every female out there as extremist man-haters, and that simply isn't true. There's a lot of rage in that blog, but not a lot of substance.

I personally have not seen any of these supposedly increasing ads against men, nor do I know any women who hate men on the sole basis of their gender. It's a lot of huffing and puffing meant to stir you up, but in the end it's just smoke obscuring the actual point of feminism and the feminist movement. I highly recommend reading up on what the movement actually is before throwing stones, lest you topple the proverbial glass house.

Also keep in mind that the particular blowhard you referenced is taking the exact attitude towards women that the extreme feminists he hates so much are taking against men. I don't deny that there are women out there who think that way, but I think you'll find, in this society at least, that they are few and far between. The loudest voices are oft the ones of least import, so honestly I'd pay "Angry Harry" and extremists on both sides of the issue no mind. Listening to these sort of people is what gives them power in the first place; ignore them and they've no impact.

~DragonHeart~

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by DragonHeart

I personally have not seen any of these supposedly increasing ads against men

Do you not watch television, or what? (Not to sound rude with that, but they're all over the place. Maybe you've just been desensitized.) Men are constantly portrayed as stupid, incompetent, dirty, vulgar, unfaithful, uncaring, rough, weak ... hell, you name it. Men can't take care of kids, men can't pick up a pizza without stopping halfway home to eat it, men can't ask for directions and get lost ... look at the new Summer's Eve commercials. (Not that I'm not thankful that they have more products now, so I don't have to watch commercials for vaginal douche while I eat dinner. Now if they'd just take the tampon commercials and hemmorhoid (sp?) cream commercials off during mealtimes, I'd be alright.) "Men have their idea of ..." Men tear up flowers, screw up curtains, use a blow-dryer after working out, etc. etc. How quickly would you get jumped on if you produced commercials showing women as emotional wrecks, sluts, incompetent, bad drivers, weak, or any other stereotypes?

I highly recommend reading up on what the movement actually is before throwing stones, lest you topple the proverbial glass house.

What the movement is, or was? What the movement was -- a quest for equal rights -- was respectable, and something to embrace. What it's become is nowhere near a quest for equal rights.

I wish I could find it, but frankly, I'm probably just too lazy to look for it. During the 90's, a few feminist groups got their panties in a wad (no pun intended) about Barbie, and how she'd be incredibly disproportionate if she was life-size. Tiny waste, huge chest, you get the idea. Their argument was that Barbie creates an image of what girls have to look like to be attractive, and that that image causes eating disorders. Of course, they never went after toys like G.I. Joe -- who, if he was real, would have something like 54" biceps -- and all of the boys and men who get hurt playing sports, lifting weights, or exercising.

[DragonHeart]

As a matter of fact, I don't. At least, not a lot and I rarely stray from the History/Discovery channels these days. Why waste brain cells on reality TV when I can write, read a book, or do something else infinitely more useful with my time. Also, keep in mind a lot of commercials, and programming in general, are playing off the stereotypes. They may not be accurate, but there's always a kernel of truth at the root. Not saying everyone is like that, it's just how the media likes to portray them.

And yes, I am aware that the movement isn't what it used to be, but it's also not nearly as extreme as that blog post is claiming it to be. There are feminist extremists, of that I don't doubt, but the movement itself is far from some global attempt to take over the world and enslave men beneath the stiletto heel of equality. Of course, that's just one of many issues I have with using a blog as a source, not the least of which being that the poster is anonymous and clearly has no platform to stand on. Had he approached the subject in a reasonable, respectful fashion, I'd be more inclined to believe him. Equality goes both ways, so the entire tone of the post he made just loses all credibility with me. He sounds more like a child throwing a tantrum than an actual concerned adult debating the pros and cons of a current social issue.

Basically what I was trying to get at was not that the issue is in itself irrelevant, cause it's not, it's that the quality of the source material is poor.

~DragonHeart~

[Koda]

If all were to be really truthful, this isn't about sexism or feminisim. I do remember the 'movement', and yes it has in many ways gone to the extreme. But once again, many young girls are being brought up and taught to go after everything they can, and get what they can get from men. And if you can't get it from one, then move on to another. To me, and I come from the old school, that's just wrong.

But with that being said, I can also say, that men are just as wrong when it comes to commericalizing women, and trying to sell any product that they have through sex. My goodness!! Look at the commercials we have on the television now. Half naked women trying to sell burgers!! What ever happened to the cute little kid with his family selling burgers? Not to mention the fact that most males are brought up to 'get it when they can' from elder men. And that in itself brings a lot of problems on the boys when they get older.

So as far as blaming on the 'movement' and/or sexism part, both genders are just as guilty as the other one.

Grizzly brought up the point about the fact that women have been arrested an increasing 10% EACH YEAR and our children, while having decreased in violence, is slowly begin to become more violent as well.

That statement is very true. I use to be an Extradition Agent, and I've carried hundreds of criminals across the country. And yes, 95% were male. But I did transport women as well. And let me tell you, some of their crimes were just as bad if not worse than some of the men. But I also transported juviniles for a bit. And some of the crimes that those kids committed were mind blowing! When I was a kid, there was no way we would have ever thought of beating an elderly person near death, or robbing the local grocery store. And those were the 12 and 13 year olds! And they weren't all boys.

Until the teaching of hatred stops, and the teaching of respect begins, it will continue to get worse. However, I do agree that the more attention that these 'hate groups' get, the more they will continue. As I said before, they are looking for their 15 min. of fame, and as long as people continue to bite, they will continue to feed.