Germany and World

[Testbug]

Hello everybody.

This time I don't have theory but I think when this thread comes popular we have somekind of theory.

So lets start to tell what this thread is all about. As you see thread name is Germany and world. So what would be happen if Germany would have won the World War II ? How things works now if Germany would have won World War II ?

Everyone knows that Germany started falling when USA get company from Europe and landed to France.(if you don't know that this thread isn't for you). But what if USA wouldn't landed to France and started to attack to Germany? Would Germany be big country who rules half Europe?

Last strike to Germany falling was that Hitler killed himself. How things would work now days if Hitler would be alive? Would he be most powerful man in the world?

You have basics now. Lets start this thread now.

[Sasquatch]

This is an interesting concept, but not one that hasn't been discussed before. Though I'm not so arrogant as to think "America won WWII", I do realize that WWII couldn't have been won without America. Germany wouldn't have stopped with Europe -- they had made moves into northern Africa and the Middle East, as well as, obviously, Russia and eastward. Japan had already invaded China and many of the archipelago territories in the area, and was still going strong. One of the reasons the U.S. wanted to ge involved was that not only were our allies being attacked (and beaten), but we knew it wouldn't stop with them. There are conspiracies going around about Pearl Harbor, but the jist of it is, we knew we were provoking them, and we said "You wanna take a shot at us, here, here's a big target for you. Show us what you got." After Pearl Harbor, obviously, it was much easier to get the American people to support military action against Germany and Japan, which is what the American government had wanted for a while.

If America hadn't jumped into the fray, I think Germany would have taken over Europe, then built back up and come for the U.S. mainland. I wouldn't doubt a bit that we would all be speaking German.

Best English WWII quote: "Going to war without the French is like going hunting without your accordian. You just leave behind a lot of noisy baggage." -Winston Churchill

[Angantyr]

I will give a better discription tomorrow when I can think a bit clearer, but from what I know about Hitlers plans, depending on whether they're true or not, things would be differant in the sense of culture, morals, Ideals and such. There are good points and bad points: The Nazi's were actually the first Enviromentalists, so there would be much less problems with pollution and crime. The idea of the Super Aryan race meant that the best were incouraged to suceed, and the trash would be forced into a differant situation from what they are now. Things such as classical music, art, litterature and so on would be much more popular than they are today.

Slavery for the blacks would probably still be around today, there would be more Blondes than any other hair colour lol. Religion would probably be the same, but from what I know, Hitler was into the Occult so who knows. Everything would be pro-german, so obviously German would probably be the most commonly spoken language, but the Scandinavian langauges would be spoken much more. I don't know the stance on the Asian countries, so we may not have the FF games

Really its too hard to say, I can think but the thing is, some things we wouldn't have that we have now, but then there would be other things. I don't think it would be much better, nor much worse. But we will never know.

[Aerif]

If Germany were to rule Europe, then German would become a more widely-spoken laungauge than maybe even Chinese! Religion would no longer be a free choice as we would all become Christian. Jewish people would be non-existant and the Aryan race would be much more consistent.

Many idiotic laws would be brought into place, such as babies being killed for having the wrong shape of noses and Germany would be the main political system of Europe.

As for Hitler... he would probably try to invade America or Asia and fail, with the world witnessing the events of WW2 they would know to set aside their differences and fight toghether against Germany.

So it;s true that the world would be a very different place, and with that I will stop flaming Germany.

[Akira]

Actually, this would have been the unfolding of events had D-Day never preceeded. Germany would have invaded Britain with a convoy of soldiers (not even comparible to the size of the D-Day invasion force but then again, few soldiers were left in Britain). America then would have lost any strategic point to launch attacks against Germany, be it aerial or naval.

Germany would have focused more troops towards defeating Russia and finally taken Moskow, Stalingrad, and Leningrad (they already had the last two), meaning the most important Russian cities had fallen. Most likely, Russia would have either ceded to Germany's demand for the Lebensraum (living space for the German people) and lost half of it's country in a bitter peace. Either that or they would have kept fighting until either of the powers had the upper hand. Germany's advantage was that it's tanks and other arsenal had quality and were more reliable where as the Russians could produce about 5-10 of the same weapon in the same time but were not as effective.

Germany's claims would have been furthered in Africa, led by Erwin Rommel until British claim in the north had been completely denounced. Germany would most likely have then tried to help Argentina expand it's borders in South America in hopes of gaining a strong ally in America and having a point to launch attacks on the Americas.

Japan at this time, would have finished off what was left of China, since they had already conquored China's major cities and therefore the mass of the populous. Little would have been left really since the west is scarcely populated and no major cities sprawl the landscape.

Also, Japan having conquored parts of southeast Asia already would have taken control of the rest of the French colonies in Laos, Vitenam, and Combodia. Possibly they would have allied with Thailand due to their similar ideological perspective or, due to Japan's belief of being the divine Asian people (similar to Germany's Aryan super human claim), would have fallen similarly. Japan would have attempted to take control of India, due to a lack of British troops being their since Britain struggled to defend all its colonies which were scattered all accross the world.

Similar to Germany, Japan would then have secured one front and would then concentrate on taking over Hawaii and other American controlled islands in the Pacific. This would minimize America's ability to launch air attacks to the Alaskan island chain, which is also known to have been under attack by the Japanes already (they tried to invade and take over the Alaskan island chain). After this, Japan would either take advantage of the weak Australian army which could prove to be a nuisance or just finish off the country which would pose the major problem. Who knows? Possibly invasion forces would have been launched to invade California at some point and after that, the rest of the west coast.

Ironically, it might have been the Axis that would have launched a D-Day-like attack where Germany invaded from the East towards cities like New York, Washington D.C., and Chicago while the Japanese take cities such as San Francisco, Los Angeles, and and Seattle.

In fact, as some of you mayb know already, Germany was devoloping an atom bomb as well, however, they hadn't yet realised the destrctive power of this weapon and didn't push to develop it like the US government did. Actually, the Germans also had developed a stealth fighter which was combat ready. Adding this to the fact that they could have had an atom bomb, New York may have been the target of the first nuclear weapon attack rather than Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I don't think that German would necessarily have become the prominent language in the world. Possibly with time but Hitler did consider English a Germanic (in fact, he had offered Britain to ally with him early in the war due to their Germanic ties) language and would most likely have not forbidden it. I believe German may have become the spoken language in more developing countries such as in Africa and so forth.

I highly doubt that Germany would have created a single governing body to dictate over all its territories. They would have created more puppet regimes that were under complete German control such as Vichy France for instance. Also, I believe a new religion would have eventually developed through a mix of Germanic and pagan culture and beliefs and the national socialist/Hitler ideology. Just a small side note, the Germans came up with a theory in WWII that Jesus was an Aryan that had wandered from India to the area of modern day Palestine-Israel. Obviously absurd but maybe more theories such as this would have led to a new Aryan religion.

Last note to this. Even if D-Day would never have happened, these plans would most likely not have been possible due to the major lack of human ressource. Wars are impossible to fight without soldiers to do the fighting.

Originally Posted by Testbug

How things would work now days if Hitler would be alive? Would he be most powerful man in the world?

He couldn't be alive....unless someone developed a way to keep him alive eternally. Considering he was already 50 or so when he killed himself, he would long be dead. I presume he would have died early anyways (if not by an allied war crime tribunal, then by the stress of the war).

I figure someone wold have taken over who has greatly different visions for the greater German Reich and this maybe would have led to more freedom or possibly less freedom. This person may have also run the empire into the ground or built it up. It's impossible to say.

[Testbug]

Originally Posted by Samurai Kenji I

He couldn't be alive....unless someone developed a way to keep him alive eternally. Considering he was already 50 or so when he killed himself, he would long be dead. I presume he would have died early anyways (if not by an allied war crime tribunal, then by the stress of the war).

I didn't think that. But what if Hitler would gave his position to somebody else like his son? (Yes, I know that he haven't son but who knows what would have happen if he wouldn't have killed himself.) How thing work now days if his son would be like Hitler: same ideas and way of thinking. There have been speculattions that Hitler didn't killed himself. Maybe his sons live somewhere but they have different name.

[Raikkonen]

Let me start off with, if Germany won the WW2 and conquered the entire world Hitler would indeed be the most powerful man on the planet. We would all be speaking german and work 20 hours a day or something for the reich (plus overtime) and those who don't would be working even more in consentration camps. Anyone that did not wish to work for the reich would considered to be a sub-human not worthy of living and sent to these camps along with anyone who could not prove their aryan inheritage.

Originally Posted by Testbug

Everyone knows that Germany started falling when USA get company from Europe and landed to France.(if you don't know that this thread isn't for you). But what if USA wouldn't landed to France and started to attack to Germany? Would Germany be big country who rules half Europe

Germany started falling when Operation Barbarossa started to collapse (the invation of Soviet) Hitler would not let his soldiers retreat and they got crushed, in the end they where outnumbered 10-1 and had no chance against the Red Army even worse for the germans was the Allies coming in from Italy and Normandy at the same time.
If the allies didn't land in Italy and France the outcome would be different, entire Europe would fall under Soviet and they would not give up easily on their newly aquired land wich they fought hard and lost many lives to take.

It was NOT America alone who won the war, it couldn't be won without Soviet or the USA for that matter. The most crucial factors to the outcome is the allied bombing of german citys and factories, the russian army, the lack of heavy german tanks like the Tiger and Hitlers persitance to not retreat his troops, in Stalingrad he lost his entire 6th Division after trying to save them by airlifting in surplies. He was fooled to belive that it could be done by the Luftwaffe's top commander but in fact it would take all their aircrafts ALL of them, everything in Africa, France, Norway, the german reserve everything. I belive it was Rudolph Hess who broke through the Soviet lines to get the trapped division out of Stalingrad and it would be easy for them to withdraw but Hitler would not let them so they perished.

Originally Posted by Aerif

As for Hitler... he would probably try to invade America or Asia and fail, with the world witnessing the events of WW2 they would know to set aside their differences and fight toghether against Germany.

If they succeded in defeating the soviets they would attack England and then America. And America WOULD fall because they would attack both from Europe and Siberia, an assault from two sides with the most advanced heavy armoured units and artillery America WOULD fall, no one can endure such an assault if Germany was to produce their heavy tanks and new jet fighters that would reach twice the speeds of any ally fighter plane.
With all that the american army would have no chance when the germans would be in total control at the sea and in the air.

EDIT: It seems to be that many people don't understand how close he was to succed, if the germans captured Moscow the allies would loose the war, the german troops could see the city in the distant thats how close they was.Stalin didn't even leave his capital because he knew if the city fell the war would be lost and all the red forces would surrender. The germans would be in control of both Europe and Asia with the help of the japanese.

[Sasquatch]

True, Barbarossa was the largest military operation in WWII and a huge strike to Germany, but without he D-Day invasion, Hitler would have been able to reinforce his Eastern front, and if he would have been able to concentrate his forces more on Russia instead of having to try to resist the Bulge, he would have taken it. And though the Soviets eventually got the upper hand, they were being pushed back for a long time, to the extent that they initiated a Scortched Earth policy, burning and destroying everything behind them so the Nazis couldn't use it.

I don't think anybody's really saying "America won WWII". But the fact remains that without America's involvement, the Allies would have lost WWII -- the same thing with Russian or British, though. The French never did much until they got bailed out, then De Gaul claimed credit for most of it.

But yes, definitely -- America would have been involved eventually. If not then, later, when Germany and Japan would have invaded the U.S. mainland.

[Raikkonen]

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

True, Barbarossa was the largest military operation in WWII and a huge strike to Germany, but without he D-Day invasion, Hitler would have been able to reinforce his Eastern front, and if he would have been able to concentrate his forces more on Russia instead of having to try to resist the Bulge, he would have taken it. And though the Soviets eventually got the upper hand, they were being pushed back for a long time, to the extent that they initiated a Scortched Earth policy, burning and destroying everything behind them so the Nazis couldn't use it.

I don't think anybody's really saying "America won WWII". But the fact remains that without America's involvement, the Allies would have lost WWII -- the same thing with Russian or British, though. The French never did much until they got bailed out, then De Gaul claimed credit for most of it.

But yes, definitely -- America would have been involved eventually. If not then, later, when Germany and Japan would have invaded the U.S. mainland.

Indeed but let me point out at first that I have heard of americans bitching about how they won WW2 and defeated Hitler "all by themselves" I don't think this goes for all americans but some YES.

As for the French they spent most of their military budget on the Maginot Line, a heavily fortified line in the hills that border Germany.
They expected the Germans to strike at this area and consentrated troops and artillery there also they built huge cannons to stop the German tanks.
Unfortunately for the French the Germans attacked the Netherlands and Belgium and France through those countries and thus avoiding the Maginot Line. The French got struck behind their lines and could not put up any serious recistance to the German advance.

And yes the Germans could not support the troops in Soviet after the Normandy landing but Hitler made several big mistakes in the Soviet campaign, two of the biggest was Stalingrad and the tank battle at Kursk.
In the first of these an entire division was lost and in the second he lost too many of his too few tanks in an enormous Soviet trap.
These two battles are a "lesson" on how not to fight a war, he should have and god knows why he didn't retreat the 6th. division when they had the chance.

[Akira]

Originally Posted by darkVivi

And yes the Germans could not support the troops in Soviet after the Normandy landing but Hitler made several big mistakes in the Soviet campaign, two of the biggest was Stalingrad and the tank battle at Kursk.
In the first of these an entire division was lost and in the second he lost too many of his too few tanks in an enormous Soviet trap.
These two battles are a "lesson" on how not to fight a war, he should have and god knows why he didn't retreat the 6th. division when they had the chance.

Well this simply strengthens the arguement that Hitler was a tactical and strategical numbskull. People always claim that he was an inhuman genious in these fields, however, whenever he got mixed up in the plans of his generals, it ended in utter failure. Anytime that there was a huge success in a battle or stategy, you could have been sure it was thanks to the excellent Prussian Field Marshals and Generals and not due to the meddling of the Gröfaz.

It's true that Hitler was extremely skilled in two areas; he was an extraordinarily strong diplomat and always knew how to turn things in his favor, in a political sense that is. He was also a mastermind at manipulation. It's not exactly easy to convince a whole civilization of something as dramatic as the claims of WWII but he did it with an incredible ease.

But as I said, the guy was, from a military aspect, a major fuck up. Some more evidence is this. Rommel predicted the attacks of D-Day and warned Hitler and even told him to go into some precautionary measures but Hitler decieved by his own dellusions coldly denounced the suggestions and did things his way. Similarly, Rommel demanded that his troops in Africa be pulled out but just like Stalingrad, Hitler told them to fight to the end.

Originally Posted by darkVivi

Unfortunately for the French the Germans attacked the Netherlands and Belgium and France through those countries and thus avoiding the Maginot Line. The French got struck behind their lines and could not put up any serious recistance to the German advance.

Man, this series of attacks must have been the most comical part about the whole war:

Frenchman: "Ah, the Jermans may 'ave a strrong arrmy but the Frrensh have even strronger forrtifications, jui."

*meanwhile in the Rheinland, Germany*

German General: Vhat!!! Zey sink zey can keep ourr mighty tanks out of zeirr borrders vhiss a couple of cannons. Ha!!! Let's simply go arround zem and zen destrroy zeirr puny arrmy. Muahahaha!!!"

(For those unable to interpret the German accent: What!!! They think they can keep our mighty army out of their borders with a of couple cannons. Ha!!! Let's simply go around them and then destroy their puny army. Muahahaha!!!)

--------

Originally Posted by darkVivi

Indeed but let me point out at first that I have heard of americans bitching about how they won WW2 and defeated Hitler "all by themselves" I don't think this goes for all americans but some YES.

I can only vouche for this. When I lived in America, most Americans made claim to this supposed solo victory. But it also goes without saying that my history teacher (make note of that, it's fucking HISTORY class so she should know about HISTORICAL facts god damn it!!!) informed many youths about who the Axis and Allies were in WWII. It went something like this:

StupidteacherwhoshouldbeshotwhenIseeheragain: "Hello everybody. Today is the day that Peral Harbor was attacked by Japan in WWII. Does anybody know what the Second World War was about?"

*no one raises their hand (most didn't know but I was just too lazy hehe)*

Stupidteacher: "Well it was a conflict involving most of the world. The conflict was started by Germany in Europe (so far so good right). Soon other nations joined Germany, such as Japan and (here it somes people) the SOVIET UNION?????"

Since when was the USSR on the side of Germany and the other Axis powers. I'm sitting in class and basically want to yell at the bitch for her pure idiocy. I would loved to have said the bitch: "Had the Soviet Union really fought WITH Germany rather than AGAINST them, your ass wouldn't be sitting here talking shit like this you stupid bitch!!!"

Of course I refrained but this just proves the point......well it definitely should unless one was part of this group of stupis Americans......which I'm not implying you are Sasquatch.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

True, Barbarossa was the largest military operation in WWII and a huge strike to Germany, but without he D-Day invasion, Hitler would have been able to reinforce his Eastern front, and if he would have been able to concentrate his forces more on Russia instead of having to try to resist the Bulge, he would have taken it. And though the Soviets eventually got the upper hand, they were being pushed back for a long time, to the extent that they initiated a Scortched Earth policy, burning and destroying everything behind them so the Nazis couldn't use it.

I was just about to say that.

Originally Posted by TestBug

I didn't think that. But what if Hitler would gave his position to somebody else like his son? (Yes, I know that he haven't son but who knows what would have happen if he wouldn't have killed himself.) How thing work now days if his son would be like Hitler: same ideas and way of thinking. There have been speculattions that Hitler didn't killed himself. Maybe his sons live somewhere but they have different name.

Well it's not a new fact that Hitler was absolutely unsocial and therefore had many problems with expressing his feelings.....to the opposite gender that is. It's also nothing new that he was most likely a terrible lover (as if he had ever gotten laid) and therefore would barely have gotten much action. Now I think we all know that you must have sex to get children......and exactly THAT is what Hitler wasn't getting. Children of Hitler is as probable as Condolisa Rice actually being a woman........yeah right. Who does she think she's fooling anyways?

Originally Posted by darkVivi

If they succeded in defeating the soviets they would attack England and then America. And America WOULD fall because they would attack both from Europe and Siberia, an assault from two sides with the most advanced heavy armoured units and artillery America WOULD fall, no one can endure such an assault if Germany was to produce their heavy tanks and new jet fighters that would reach twice the speeds of any ally fighter plane.
With all that the american army would have no chance when the germans would be in total control at the sea and in the air.

Well, actually, the Americans and the British as well as the Japanese all had working jetplanes underway and would have been equal in the air to Germany......although someone may have had the better jet or so but you know what I mean.

Germany's sea capabilities were quite limited and would only, with a substantial prolonging of the war, have been capable of defeating the American and British (if they hadn't already been defeated at some point) fleets. But it's also fact that Hitler was going to produce lots of Battleships as well Aircraft Carriers (yes that's right). Who knows if they would have been equal or not.

Again I want to direct your attention to the fact that Germany didn't have many people left. Maybe they would have started recruiting soldiers from conquored nations but who knows. I'm just saying, their extremely limited human resource would have made a conquoring of the US hard.