[Lucid]

My contribution to this thread...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gs6GYBPNrrU

[LionheartVIII]

Originally Posted by Cain Highwind

Merging this with the Brawl discussion thread.

Personally I play to have fun, not dominate other people. And FD + No items? Please, "REAL MEN USE ITEMS"!

I don't like it when games are based on luck. Items are all luck.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Paper Pro

I don't like it when games are based on luck. Items are all luck.

I wouldn't say it's all luck, besides which you're basically playing the wrong game if all you care about is skill and domination. Last time I checked the appeal for all of us for Smash Brother's was the fact that it's actually a fun game to sit down and play without the pressure of always feeling competition, ect.

The items are probably 50% of the fun appeal to Smash Brothers imo.

And I'm a competitive person by nature.

[Brachioraidos]

Sorry guys but I got 1 more Q and yes it does contain spoilers.....When do I get Lucario? I just beat that big robo you have to fight with Meta knight, Ike and Marth so im just asking how much longer because I really want to be him so if you can help me, I would be really greatful.

[LionheartVIII]

Originally Posted by Sean

I wouldn't say it's all luck,

Ok I was wrong, it's actually 99% luck. Random factors (items) make the game less skill based. Items are very random, they drop randomly onto the stage, and sometimes they are duds( if your unlucky).

besides which you're basically playing the wrong game if all you care about is skill and domination.

It's pretty clear that you are very unaware of how big the competitive Super Smash Brother community is. Hell, it seems you are totally unaware of the community. Super Smash Brothers is one of the most competitive games out their. Not only that but some players have made a living off of just winning the prizes at competitions. SSB is an played at MLG(Major League Gaming LOL) events and is taken very seriously by its competitors.

Last time I checked the appeal for all of us for Smash Brother's was the fact that it's actually a fun game to sit down and play without the pressure of always feeling competition, ect.

That's the appeal for all casual players like you.

The items are probably 50% of the fun appeal to Smash Brothers imo.

Well they are .01% of the appeal to the competitive community.

And I'm a competitive person by nature.

Ok.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Brachioraidos

Sorry guys but I got 1 more Q and yes it does contain spoilers.....When do I get Lucario? I just beat that big robo you have to fight with Meta knight, Ike and Marth so im just asking how much longer because I really want to be him so if you can help me, I would be really greatful.

As far as I know unlocking people is completely random.


@Paper: Guitar Hero is played at WSVG ffs, but that doesn't make it a competitive game. Don't come in here flexing your e-peen over how you play SSB competitively.

[Sabin Rene Figaro]

Originally Posted by Brachioraidos

Sorry guys but I got 1 more Q and yes it does contain spoilers.....When do I get Lucario? I just beat that big robo you have to fight with Meta knight, Ike and Marth so im just asking how much longer because I really want to be him so if you can help me, I would be really greatful.

i think you get him after you beat him in the subspace mode. for more information of how to get him, look here. http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/hidden06.html

hope that helps ya

[Brachioraidos]

Originally Posted by Sean

As far as I know unlocking people is completely random.


@Paper: Guitar Hero is played at WSVG ffs, but that doesn't make it a competitive game. Don't come in here flexing your e-peen over how you play SSB competitively.

Na it aight random...well vs mode it kinda is


K ill look at it, I hope it helps and thanks

[Che]

I play toon link, wario and wolf mostly, I'm trying to get a wireless router soon so I can play online, mine crapped out after the first week brawl was out.

There are 2-3 ways to unlock most characters. Play through subspace emissary, or do 100,200,300+ brawls to unlock characters. Jiggly Puff, Toon Link, and Wolf all are unlocked after you beat subspace and return to a few levels, and you get sonic at the end. You can easily google this information for unlocking characters.

[Andromeda]

I've finally gotten some time to play the game at work. We in general play melee/brawl matches rather than one on ones. So I've gotten to try out a number of the new characters. However, I've taken a liking to Ike. Ike is insane, while he is slow the sending power and sheer strength that he possesses is crazy. Plus I like the over and B move that he has. It makes for a great recovery, just a shame that you can't combine it with your recovery when you're too far away.

I got to play Shiek some and she is so much slower now. It feels so weird playing her now with the changes that were made. I'm still alright with her, but its annoying that they toned her down so much. And her transformation time is stupid long. That has to be the worst change that they made to her.

Marth seems to be almost the same, though the charged up B is not the same which disappoints me. His over and B no longer recovers him as well either. In melee I rarely needed the recovery because his over and B was so efficient as getting me back to the stage. Now I lose so much air that I have to use it. Marth is still good, but I don't like the changes made.

[Che]

The game is much more "floaty" now. There is more DI (directional influence for the noobs). You can now get off two F-Airs before you fall with Marth, which means you can still do the KenMarth combo. His properties have changed a bit, but it's still the same character. It's just a different set of physics you have to learn.

Sheik has the same moveset, but is less powerful becuse the hitboxes aren't as extreme as they were in melee. Zelda is more powerful than Sheik now.

[Andromeda]

Well Sheik was always weaker than Zelda in melee, but Sheik had the speed and ability to juggle to make up for the lack of damage dealing ability. And yeah, the physics of the game is definitely altered. You can do two or three down smashes in air while in melee most characters could only do one. I think I almost do better with new characters than the ones that I've played for years on melee just because I don't know their timing inside and out yet. So I don't keep feeling like there is something wrong.

I've started to make the adjustment with Marth already since he has not had huge changes to him. But so much of Sheik is different that it is going to take time to get used to her again. It also doesn't help that the repeated attacks and diminished strength and sending ability really breaks things up. I'm so used to doing a couple of moves with Marth, because they were affective. But I can't now. It does not affect my Sheik as much since I varied the techniques I used with Sheik. But it really throws off my Marth game. Its the strange thought pattern that I can't keep doing the same thing so I hesitate. Its weird. Once I play Brawl more I'll get over that issue.

One thing that I certainly do notice is that Brawl lasts longer. The fights go on for a while. I remember them saying that Brawl is slower than Melee and it is true. Except when I'm Ike, then people die in like 15 seconds. But yeah, its slow. Though there is a certain advantage to having longer fights.

[Che]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aKZcW3VVQjo

You should watch these fights if you haven't already. It's my favorite toon link player (my main) vs. Ike (whom you seem to like). They're both really good players, and it sort of shows you how brawl is going to look like once everyone gets their timing down. They aren't perfect yet like melee fights were, but you can see the metagame developing.

[Brachioraidos]

Finally, I found my tp 5 players
1. Lucario
2. Meta knight
3. Sonic
4. Ike/Pit
5. Toon Link

I personally think its really easy to unlock people in this game. The most brawls you had to do to get people are like 450. Its really easy cause all you gotta do is go to special melee, Then go to stamina with flowers. Then put comps hp to 1 and just play. Comp will die in a sec so all you gotta do is biscally press start. This is also a godd way to unlock other things like stages. It should only take you about 2 hours or less to unlock every one.

[SOLDIER #819]

My choice characters haven't changed much from Melee. I normally play as Zelda, Marth, and Ike. My favorite is probably Pikachu, but I play as him less. He's been my main character since SSB, so it's become stagnant. I'm really happy that they've given Pikachu and Zelda a boost though. Pikachu is back to being extremely annoying and Zelda is just amazing.

For some reason the most noticeable difference I've encountered with Marth is that his sword dance is a lot easier to use. I haven't noticed what Andromeda was talking about, but I'm not that great with details.

One thing that hasn't really changed is Fox. I'm still horrible at playing and dealing with him. Sheik and Sonic are not that far off. The people who play well as them completely destroy me. Unpredictable knee-jerk speed is dangerous.

By the way, those videos are great, Kilo. So fast, I'm surprised that Ike could even keep that sort of pace.

[Unknown Entity]

... erm... this is probs a really stupid question, but what platform was it made for?

[Sabin Rene Figaro]

it was made for the wii. its ok if you didn't know not everyone pays a that much of attention to games.

[Unknown Entity]

oh ok!

i used to be well updated in the realm of games, but then i stopped buying OPS2 this time last year... now my games knowledge has decreased, and i don't think they still make OPS2... oh well...

[Brachioraidos]

Its Ight. Ok to make this thread more interesting...Im going to start putting a counter guide and tips for chacters because ive seen some youtube vids and its rare to see a REALLY good fight. I hope they help. I will update this post so ya(If my guide sucks for a chatcter or you want to add somthing, post and I will add it and put your name for by the help or edit. I have bad spellin so just be aware and try not to tell me because I will know unless its some big mistake)O and if its not updated then feel free to just cover stuff and I will Just copy and paste the info into this post and put your name over it One more thing, you should look up " brawl Character expose" on youtube. The vids arn't done by me but the people do a good good on showing tactics with your fave player.

THERE ARE ONLY 36 PLAYERS BECAUSE SAMUS AND ZERO SUIT SAMUS ARE REALLY DIFFRENT AND YOU CANNOT CHANGE BACK TO ANOTHER WITHOUT A FINAL SMASH OR TRICK. IF I WANTED TO, I COULD PUT SHIEK AND ZELDA SEPRATE BUT I AM NOT DOING THAT BECAUSE THEY CAN CHANGE WITH B DOWN!

READ!:


The setup for guide:
Player: If the player has a speical thing I will put that eg: Kirby can loose his power by taunting. Also if somthing has changed from Melee. If theres nothing special, I will put NS

Counter: MY thoughts on how to beat the player

Tips on using player: Explains itself

----> = Forward
<---- = Backward
^ = Up
Smash = Smashing a control stick(or whaever you use) in a direction in combination with A. Eg: --> Smash, Forward(hitting control stick hard)A
Spike = Hitting the player downward really hard. Also known as meteor smash in melee but they are the smash.
Edge Guard = Going to the most left/right part of the stage and making sure the foe can't get back. Basically guarding the edges of a stage.
Tilt = Holding a control still(or whaevery you use) in a direction in combination with A. Eg: ^ Tilt, Up(holding) A
Air Guard = Same as Edge guarding but you can go any where and after you hit somone up in the air, you don't let them touch the ground until there die.




1. Lucario: The higher his damage, the more powerful he becomes. It has been proven. At 0%, a fully charged Aura Sphere( Neutral B) Does around 13% if hit. At 187% it does around 26%. This abilty powers up every attack and not just his B. I don't think it has an Effect on his Final Smash though. Also, Lucario can wall sit( I think other players can do this but lucario is the best at it)This helps his B ^ because you can curve it. If you think your about to die and your B ^ won't save you, try and wall sit because it counts as the ground so you can jump again

Counter: A nice counter for Lucario would be Fox but it is pretty riskey. I think hes a counter because His blaster racks up damage really quickley. During your blasts, Lucario will charge his Aura sphere most likely and then shoot it. You can just reflect it so there goes Lucarios best move. Its riskey to do that because Lucario gets stronger because of his abilty. Most of his moves are close rang but thats good because Fox is close range aswell. Toon Link or Link is also a good counter. Its not as riskey because at high percentages, they can kill people fast. They also have many far ranged attacks to rack up damage and they also stop the charging of Aura sphere unlike Fox. They are both kind of a long range and short range fighter so it should be a good fight. Zelda and Sheik are a nice combo of rack up and kill but are not as ranged as Link so it is riskey.

Tips: Smash Dojos quote for Lucario " High Risk High Return" Is very helpful. At the start of the battle, just keep your distance and hold them back with Aura Sphere and then when they get to close, do a combo of AAA( Press A 3 times) then if you have a Fully charged Sphere, shoot it. If you don't, Roll away or use a Smash move. Another good way is to Face backwards and the charge. Your oppenet will get trapped with the charging of the Sphere and when its fully charged, shoot it. Another good way to win is to STAY ALIVE WHEN YOU HAVE A HIGH PERCENTAGE! When you have a high percentage kill the foe if there at 80% or higher. If there at zero, run to the end of the stage and charge that Aura Sphere to hold them back. Just keep on running and shooting them until there in ther 80's again.

2. Meta knight: Meta knight can glide if you hold the jump button. USE THIS for a horizontal recovery. It will help.

Counter: Lucario. Whats there to say. Meta racks up damage fast and has problems killing foes. Lucario gets stronger with more damage so just kill him when your weak. Also use Aura sphere a lot because Meta is only a short ranged fighter.

Tips: Attack the foe right away. Meta is fast and racks up damage fast. When he/she is at around 100% use ---> Smash ( Forward A) and just edge guard if they live. Another way is to use your ^ A in the Air until they die. Its riskey but whaever. Also, use that cape for a dodge. It will help close range so use that to get behind your foe and then strike.

3. Sonic: Nothing special but he is the fastest in the game and all of his B speicals look the same and you can still move after using Up B

Counter: This is pretty hard. You can try a heavy hitter because sonics light but most of them are slow. Lucario is good because Sonic lacks finishing moves but Lucario is kinda slow. I would use Meta knight because hes fast and he can counter + he is a close ranged fight like Sonic. Snakes good but sonic is fast so it will be hard to get a mine attack on him.

Tips: Use your speed well. Try and mix it up so the foe does not expect anything. They will get tricked with your B moves 1nce in a while unless your player with somone who knows Sonic well. Try using your B ^ and then A down in the air. Also sonic is a decent Edge guarder.

4.Ike: Nothing special. Just watch out because his B ^ is a really bad recovery. During this move, you can't be knockbacked though, you still recive damage but without the knockback. Also, a fully charged neutral B can hurt you 10%

Counter: FOX! just spam that neutral B and then come in for the kill. Ike is slow so if he gets to close( Make sure he dosn't because he hits HARD) just book it somwhere else and shoot again until he is at high percentages. Then com in for the Kill

Tips: Um..... I really don't got any. Hes really good at getting smash balls and is a really hard hitter. Try and using your Neutral B in the air because it hits people above you and under and has OK knock Back.

5. Toon Link: Plays like Young Link from Melee. Hes faster than Link and his Boomarang does not suck people in.

Counter: MAYBE Pit. Toon has many ranged attacks and Pit has 2 refelctors. Why not one of the Star Fox players? Most Links attack frontal and Pit reflectors are frontal. Also Fox/Falco and Wolf's recoverys are not as great as Pits. Also pit can glide. Just spam Neutal B. Then when Toon gets close use -----> B. Then finish Toon of with an attack.

Tips: His down A in the Air comes down really fast. Try and run attack a lot because he is fast. Um.....get your foe weak from far then go in and kill them with a ----> smash.

6. Mario: His B down has changed from melee but you can still do it if you use A down in the air

Counter: Anybody who is fast and is a long ranged player and short ranged. Link would be good because his neutral B counters his neutral B and he is stronger close range. Lucario is good because of Aura Sphere but his cape can counter that. Meta knight is also a good choice.

Tip: I havn't tried this my self but charge up flood(B down) right away. Then weaken your foe until you get knockback. Then wait until he/she uses her/his recovery and then use Flood. It dosn't do damage but it does do knockback so your oppent will not be able to get back because he/she got knocked back. The only players who I can think of that can get past this is Sonic, Meta and Pit. Sonic because he can still mover after his recovery. Meta and pit because they can glide. Also try and use a final smash when your foe is trying to get back on the stage. It will knockthem back and kill them if there at the edge. If it does not kill them, then it will at least hurt them.

7. Luigi: Try and use your brain for what recovery to use. If its a horizontail, use B ----> because it goes horizonatally. Don't use B ^ because it only goes up.

Counter: Same person you used for Mario. It would be better if you used a longed ranged player because he dosn't have that cape that mario has.

Tip: I really don't have one but for his final smash, hit them out and if they don't die, throw them back in your final smash circle and hit them again.

8. Peach: She has the one of the best revocery in the game. Somtimes better than Pits. Hold the jump button to fly.

Counter: You will need a HARD hitter. Don't expect to kill her by just throwing her and thinking she can't get back because she will. Maybe sombody like Ike, DeDe, or Bowser would be good. All those guys are heavy and hit hard. It will be hard for Peach to kill them because there heavy. Make sure you hit her and she dies by getting hit to hard and flys of the screen. Ive noticed she dosn't have that great of a virtical revorey though. Try and spike her down.

Tips: Fly for your life. Try and make sure people don't hit you downward because you only got 2 jumps then your umbrella to get you back. Try and make sure they hit you horizontaly because you can float.

9. Bowser: His B---> His changed from Melee a little

Counter: Really, anyone can kill Bowser unless somone who is good with Bowser controls him. He is a BIG target so you shouldn't miss alot. Lucario is good because he can just Aura Sphere to victory. Fox is good because he can blaster his way. Meta Knight and Sonic will KILL Bowser because he is slow.

Tips: Bowser is all about timing. Wait until your foe comes close and then strike. Then just start using little A and B. Try and use B ---> and then ^ Smash. Or use your fire then attack.

10. DK: If you play on " Beat" during his Final Smash its better. Press A when you think your on beat.

Counter: A far ranged player. Lucario is always a good choice for big slow heavy players. Sonic Meta and all those people who rack up damage fast and are quick are riskey because DK is very strong. Don't let him charge up his puch because it will come back to haunt you. Avoid close range attacks and you will be fine.

Tip: I know this sounds stupid but charge your puch then run towards you oppent and start weaking them. Finishing off with that puch is smart. If its a ranged player, Jumps towards them.

11. Diddy Kong: After shooting his neutral B, you can pick up those peanuts to gain some health.

Counter: Possibly a hard hitter like Ike. A recflector person would work to. If he uses his B down, pick up his Bannanas and throw them. Hes not that great in the air so try and get him up there. Edge guard because of his jetpacks.

Tips: Shoot your peanuts and eat them. There really isn't much I can say but try to hit and run because your light. If its a light person to then just beat on them like you would normally.

12. Yoshi: After he does his double jump, he dosn't have another virtical jump. Also note kinda like Ike, Yoshi cannot be knocked back when he is doing his DOUBLE jump.

Counter: Maybe Sonic. They both can roll around so Yoshis egg roll move won't effect him because he can counter it. Also, if Yoshi trys to put you in an egg, your recovery is pretty good. Sonic is fast so he can dodge his tounge. Just watch out when he throws an egg because its a combo starter. With anybody, try and knock him back after his second jump. If hes out there, the only thing that will get him back is his egg roll move but you can edge guard that.

Tips: Try to get hit horizontally. Use your tounge! It has range for short attacks so its good. Try and use your egg roll a lot to rack up damage. If the player is about to crack it, jump out and B down there a**. If somone uses a strong item and your at a high percentage, use your double jump if you can't avoid it.

13. Wario: Your B^ recovery sucks. Use B down to get back up if your far away.

Counter: Wario is hard to beat but a ranged player can beat him. Don't get to close unless your going in for the KO. Wario is really good close range so ya. If he uses his bike, try and pick it up and throw it at him or off the stage.

Tip: Use your fart to recover. Also, your bike is a really good recovery if your good with him. Try and stay close range and use a fully charged fart to get them into high %. Use that bite to start your combos.

14. Link:You can charge your B^ now if your on the ground. You can also use your clawshot to get back up and your boomarg sucks people towards you if it hits.

Counter: The same for Toon Link. Anyone who is a ranged, short fighter will do. It helps to have a reflector because he can throw 3 diffrent things at you. I think he is easier than Toon because he is slower but he is stronger.

Tip: Same as Toon link. Just time your attacks more often tho because Link is slower so that dosn't open as many combos. Also, his A down in the are dosn't come down fast like Toons does.

15. Zelda/Sheik:Bdown is how you transform. Also if you hold A or R(GC) or -(Wii) you can change automatically. They do not have the same atttacks exept for B Down. Also note that they don't transform as fast as they did in melee.

Counter: This is pretty hard. Sheik is fast and can rack up damage. Zelda is a juggler and can kill you easily at high percnetages. They are both light so a closed range power house like Link or Meta knight could beat them. I really don't know this one but try and attck them when they are changing forms.

Tip: Start off by tranforming into Sheik(Unless you already did)Get there damage to about 90% then chang into Zelda. She is way better at killing than Sheik in brawl. Also, if you facing someone like Lucario or Samus, cancel out there charged attacks with your needles( neutral B)

16. Ganondorf: Slower than he was in melee. Also, you turn around your neutral B(warlock punch) by tilting the control stick the oppistie way.

Counter: Lucario, Link, Pit, Flaco, Wolf, Samus anyone who has a strong ranged attack and strong finish move.

Tip: Try and trick your opponent. Use your warlock puch and purposly turn the other way. Then just turn it around for a suprise attack.

17. Samus: Her grab can graple to the edge like Links.

Counter: A reflector will work wonders. A close range reflector is best because Samus is good up close aswell.

Tip: Always have a fully charged shot ready to go. When thats charged, shoot missles until they get ok knockback then shoot. After that edge guard. When low on health, play defencively with missles and keep all attacks ranged.

18. She can grap the edge with her wip just like Samus. Hold R(GC) or -(Wii) to be her before the fight starts. Also you can do Samus's Up tuant and down taunt to become her in the middle of the battle but it is hard to do. Use Samus's FS to become her also.

Counter: Keep your attacks ranged most of the time. She is more short-long ranged player. She has stunning moves so watch out. Lucario, Samus, Falco, Snake are all good choices. If you are going to fight her up close, try to avoid jumpin over her. She has good air attacks so watch out. Also if you fight her up close, attack fast.

Tip: Use that stunner of yours. Smash down and neutral B are both stunners but neutral B has a little bit of distance. Her B Down is her recovery. Her B ^ is really useful if you want to rack up damage. If used proberly, it should hit them up and then when they hit the ball part, they should come back down. Use this repeat this attack really fast do rack up damage until there in the 80's or 70's then kill them with ----> Smash or --->B

19. Pit: Like Meta Knight, He can Glide. Also his B down can block runches and stuff.

Counter: Pit is a REALLY hard player to beat. Ike is a nice Pit counter. Make sure he flys off the screen because this guy actually has a broken recovery. Fight him like you would fight peach. Use Ike's B ^ to counter his flying abiltys. Try to fight him in the air. If he EVER uses B ---->, DON'T TRY and get out by moving HIS way. You will take 24% so move the oppisite way of Pit.

Tips: You have the best player recovery wise. You want to avoid air fighting and big hits from people with good knockback. Spam that B and B--->. Reflect any thing that comes your way. Rack up damage with ^ Smash and finish with ---> Smash.

20. Ice Climbers: Same as Melee really. If the pink one dies, then you don't lose a stock or point but without her, you don't attack as hard and your B^ barely works.

Counter: A good clearing attack is good. If your vs a human player that is good with them, try using a clearing attack to seperate them then kill the cpu player. If its vs cpu, kill the blue one and don't bother with the other one. They are good close range and good at KOing if there together. There average seperated.

Tip: KEEP THEM TOGETHER! If one dies, you are screwed or dead. If you have to chose(If your in a tight spot)let the comp die. You will be screwed but you still have a chance. Also, try and keep it close because they are good shot ranged players. Decent Guarders.

21. ROB: You are allowed to use your B^ any time as long as your fuel is full

Counter: A faster player who has good knockback like Sonic. Just watch out for his B down and neutral B

Tip: Use your B ^ alot and charge your B down if you have a chance. Kepp your distance and weaken them with your Neutral B and B down. Then come in with a Smash ----->

LOCO'S POST BELOW HELPED ME A BIT FOR KIRBY!

22. Kirby: Do a taunt to get rid of your power. If you press B ----> in the air, Kirby will swing his hammer 2 times.

Counter: Kirby is harder this time around. In melee, his A down in the air took so long to come out but in brawl, that is fixed. Try and get a ranged player because kirby is good up close and if you have a player with a deadly B move, don't let him suck you up. Just attack, then run and repet until he is weak. If your best player is a close combat player, just attack as fast as you can. Meta and Pit are nice counters.

Tip: Right away suck in his/hers power and use it to your advantage. You can fly so fly if your going to die. A nice way to rack up damage is to suck them in, then spit them out near the edge and guard it. Like Loco said, he has gotton better all around so use your melee stratiges and hope for the best. I don't know if his B ^ spikes so you can experiment. Your hammer is a power house so use it. Good air guarder.

23. King DeDe:Your B ---> throws three diffrent kirby players. Waddle Dees ( 2 eyed thing) do the least amount, Waddle Doos( One eyed) are strong and have an electrical touch to them and Gordo are the strongest. Press ^ after you do your B^ to cancel flying down. You can fly like kirby. You do not copy abiltys with your B

Counter: Anyone fast will kill this guy. Treat him like Bowser but keep more distance because his Smash attacks are REALLY strong. If he Uses his B ^, Jump up and hit him until he is about to die and he will die because all of his jumps will be out. Meta knight is OK but not the best because he has troubles killing. Lucario is NOT a good counter because most of the time when Lucario goes in for a kill, he goes close and thats not smart againist DeDe. A star fox player or Zelda player could beat him. Pit, Samus, ranged players and somtimes Ike could beat DeDe.

Tip: Use B ---> at the start then go in for the kill. I really hate this guys B down and I would use A ---> to finish. If you have great timing, B down will be good. Also, if you have good Timing, DeDe will be a good player but if you don't, don't use this guy. Try and use the Suck Spit combo like you do with Kirby. REALLY good guarder if you have your time right.

24. Olimar: B gets out your Pkmin. B down calls them back and re arranges them and B---> throws them. The Pkimin do not all do the same thing when you use B-->. Red pikmin stick, have high attack, are immune to fire and can create it. Blue: Use for throwing, Strongest Pikmin, Stick. Yellow: Good range, When thrown, Arcs and somtimes creates electricity on contact, Sticks. Purple: Bad range, Slow, Very strong, Slams into enemy and does NOT stick. Without your Pikmin, Olimar sucks so press B when your out.

Counter: Kill those Pikmin. A fast player is the best for this. Falco is good because his B special will kill those Pikimn and he is fast so he can go in for the kill. Don't let him Pluck more. Olimar is more close ranged so watch out. Also, If he EVER thorws a Pikmni and it sticks, kill it right away by doing a down smash because your damage can go from 0-40 in 3 sec. Anyone can beat Olimar if he has no Pikmin so ya...

Tips: Pluck like crazy. Try and start off by plucking they most and order them by putting the sticking one first then purple so they can rack up damage and go in for the kill. Try and avoid using Purple for racking up Damage because it sucks. Avoid using Yellow and White for killing because they can't. Try and run at your oppenent so they can't kill your Pikmin. Purple is also a good Edge guarder. You have to have really good skills to be good with this guy so don't use him if your new to the series.

25. Fox: Your B ---> can be a recovery. Thats all I really know thats special bout him.

Counter: Fox is a hard player to beat. He is fast and can rack up damage fast AND can reflect. A heavy strong player like Ike is ok. If you like to use Link, Lucario, Pit and raged people like that, suprise him with ranged attacks beacuse fox will reflect it. Stay close because his B is really good for racking up damage. Try and Edge guard because his recovery is OK. Marth, Meta people with swords are good and Bowser, DeDe and Ganon are good choices if you have your timing right. C. Falcon maybe.

Tip: Start of by using B rapidly to weakin your enemy. Then, if there in the 60 or 50's go in with that forward smash to weakin or kill them. Edge guard and try and make a combo. Use your down grade then B down for decent damage. Use your B---> for a horizantal recovery.

26. Falco: Same as Fox BUT, his B special is slower and is like the one in the 64 version were it has knockback. His B ^ does not go as far as Fox's. Some of his moves are diffrent such as tilts. You THROW your reflector FORWARD! It does not go around an protect your back but it does hit oppents eaiser.

Counter: Same as Fox but has that 64 gun. Use the same people you use for Fox but if you try and use a charged beam, then hit him from BEHIND because his reflector does not cover his back.

Tip: Same as fox but start by holding them back with B until there weak then Forward Smash. I don't know if that grab down then B down works good but you can try that. Your A down in the air is a nice spike.

27. Wolf: Slower but stronger than Fox and Falco. His B special is like Falcos with knock back but has crappy range. Your B down is like Foxs but reflects the object 2x stronger when its reflected.

Counter: Same as Fox but faster people work better because he is slower. Ranged is ok but watch out for his reflector. Avoid close range but other than that, treat him like Fox but a stronger.

Tip: Close range. Your recovery sucks but who cares. Play like your Fox and you should be good. If your a person who likes ranged players, then just keep a little range because Wolf does not have great range like Falco and Fox.

28. Captin Falcon: If you hit some one with your B ^, you can use it again.

Counter: A fast haevy guy like Ike. If your really good with a light player, then watch out because C. F users will try and land a C puch to finish you. Thats why Ike is good because Captin Falcon is light but you do have to watch out for C puch. A ranged player or Sonic might work but C. F is fast so if your a ranged player get in as many hit as you can before fighting.

Tip: Start of with and neutral A combo then use forward smash. Then, Edge Guard. I never use this guy but play with him like your Ganondorf.

29. Pikachu: You aim your B ^ and you can direct it twice.

Counter: A close ranged player or A reflector. The one thing you have to watch out for is PIKA(B down)! If your a reflecting player, then refelct his B attacks and go in for the kill because Pikachu is light. Pit is good because his mirror sheild(b down) blocks attack. Pika is small so all those hits can be blocked.

Tip: Start of by spaming neutral B, then use your down Smsh when there close and then, you have two good options. A) Forward smash then to the side and edge guard with B down. B) Hit them up with Up smash and Air Guard with B down.

30. Pokemon Trainer: You fight with 3 Pokemon, Squrtile,Ivysuar and Charizard(can glide by holding jump button). Press B down to change netween pokemon

Counter: This is all about knowing your player. If its Squrtile, Hit him with a hard hit. Squrtile is good ranged and close ranged so watch out. For Ivysaur, try and not get above him because its Neutral B will kill you. Ivy is a close ranged pokemon so try and weaken it from far. Hit it will hard hit because it is not heavy. The Last pokemon is Charizard. Charizard is kinda like a Bowser DeDe fusion. He can fly like DeDe and glide but he can blow fire like Bowser. Char is a really strong close ranged player so weaken him from far because its slow and try and use fast hit to get him near the edge and guard it. Watch out for its B ----> because its really strong.

Tip: Know your oppenent. If its sonic or somthing use Ivysaur and throw him/her above you and use your neutral B and finish off with forward Smash. If its a kinda heavy person like Ike then use Squtile because he is fast and won't get knocked out as easy as Ivy or Char. The only reason why Char can't take Ike on is because Ike is fast and can knock Char out good. Use Char for slow players or light one. You should use Squrtile for mid-heavy, Ivysaur for fast and Char for heavy/light. Also, you can try and weaken your foe at the beging with Ivysaur. Then, get them to 100ish with Squrtile then finish of with Charizard.

31. Jigglypuff: Your B ---> is your 3rd jump not B ^. Jigglypuff's B down sucks compared to melee but puts a flower on opponent if hits.

Counter: Heavy fast players like Ike or fast hitters like Sonic. Lucario, Meta, Snake all those players will kill. Jiggly is pretty fast if you ask me and does hit hard. Stay away from edges because Jiggly is good at edge guarding. If you are a light player like Pika, then don't get to close or else that rest move(B down) will kill you. Just hit jiggly with fast moves at the start and then kill it with a heavy one.

Tip: Master that B down. It has changed from melee for the worse but who cares still use it. Get you opponent to the edge and guard with ---> smash.

32. Marth: Nothing has changed but your B ---> comes out faster and his B stabs.

Counter: Marth is a hard player to beat. He has fast attacks and good killing attacks + his recovery is not that bad. The one thing that lets him down is his weight. So just weaken him and edge guard. A forward tilt might even kill him but a smash is better.

Tip: Don't let your opponent start the combo. If your a player that waits then strikes, don't do that. If you in the air, move away from the opponent just so your on the safe side. Start out with a down tilt then forward smash for a good start then just do what you do.

33. Ness: NS

Counter: Ness is light so a Ike would be nice. Don't come down slowly if your in the air because PK Flash will kill you. When you get ness to the edge and he has to use PK thunder to get back, jump over there(unless if you a light player in the 100's) and attack. If you however feel it is to riskey, back up a bit and charge a ---> smash or hang of the ledge so ness can't grab it.

Tip: Never used ness but his throws are good. Try and PK fire to stop incombing bombs and projectiles. If your vs somone like Lucario or Samus, Then try and get your B down up a lot so you can absorb there neutral B.

34. Lucas: B up goes through people and does not stop. PK ice is almost the same a PK flash but easier to control.

Counter: Treat Lucas like Ness but watch out for PK ice. It should be easier to Edge guard because PK tnuder is not as good as Ness's PK thunder.

Tip: Play like ness but if your 50ft away from your opponent, then PK tunder them. PK ice is not that hard to control so use it.

35. Mr Game & Watch: NS but you have a paracute to gentle come down.

Counter: Watch is fast a light. He does not hit hard(most of the time) but he is fast and his recovery has gotton better. Don't get to close or else his fry pan or hammer will hurt you. Treat him kinda like Meta Knight but slower.

Tip: Start off by using your hammer then your Torch(----> smash) and you down tilt is good. Always float down unless of course if you need to get down fast. Use your speed to your advantage and you should be fine.

36. Snake: Your A down is a mine that blows up ANYTHING that touches it( yes, that means you). You can set a lot of them with out blowing up the other one. Your B down on the other hand, only blows up when you press B down and you cannot have 2 out at a time. Also, you can set your B down while you using your B ^. The power and distance of your gernades depends on how you throw the button(yes they can also hurt you) If you hold B and then press forward they will go far. If you just hold B then throw them, they go a shortor distance and if you hold B then press back, then they will go backwards and hit you possibly.

Counter: Damn, this is really hard. Hopefully you fight this guy on a bright level because if you can't see those mines, you are DEAD! Always watch what snake is doing so you no where he puts the mines. If all you here is a mine drop, then thats his B down and it is not that hard to get by if your opponent forgot where he set it. You will know if its his a down if Snakes is glowing or you here a RAAAA then a mine sound. Try and throw Snake into the mine or blow it up with an item or attacks. Snake is a heavy hitter so watch out. When I vs Snake, I use Sonic because Sonic is fast so he can get by his mines easily but it is riskey because Sonic is light and lacks killing moves. Watch out when your in the air because Snakes motars go far up.

Tip: KNOW WHERE YOU SET YOUR MINES! Snake is all about his mines so know where you put it. Snek is a good player so set your mines right at the edge at the begginging or when your opponent has to get back and work towards them by hitting your opponent towards them Also, set some mines by you and use your missle or gernades. That way, if someone trys to get to you, they will have to get to you by air but they will have problems because Sanke has a motar.

[Cain Highwind]

Thought I'd bump this back up to spark some new discussion.

I'm really getting there as far as unlocking stuff. Most of the challenges left involve stuff to be done over time (like 50 Hours of Brawls, or 5000 Matches) and Boss mode stuff. While Link and especially Young Link are great, I've really been getting into using Ike and "Triple D" (as the Pros like to call him)

Oh, I currently have 226 songs unlocked (I heard there's supposed to be around 250). So I thought I'd ask What are some of your favorite songs in the game.

My top 5 probably are (in no particular order)

Ashley's Song
Gourmet Race (FREAKIN' INSANE!)
Chill Dr. Mario
Tetris Theam A
Legend of Zelda Title (not to be confused with LoZ Main Theme)

Oh and I've actually made a few Stages and uploaded them to IGN

http://supersmashbros.ign.com/users/.../Cain-Highwind

There's also some really good ones here too lots of N64 and Melee remakes as well as some other neat original designs.