The Alien Proposition

[Nin`]

In today's thought experiment you are abducted by aliens. Before you get your knickers in a twist, no they are not interested in probing you. They turn out to be extremely friendly and intelligent. They tell you that you have been chosen at random to make a very important decision (or at least vote on it, they hint that you may not be the only abductee though you see no signs of others).

The aliens have knowledge and technology that could transform earth into a paradise but it comes at a terrible price. They can eliminate all forms of pain and suffering due to disease, war, accidents, crime, etc using something they call "femtotechnology" but after 1000 years the atomic-scale machines will turn into grey goo and destroy all life and other complex structures that it has contact with.

So the question for you is this: Do you accept their gift along with the deferred death sentence for everyone and everything on Earth or do you decline and let humanity forge its own future? The aliens show you enough that you have every reason to know they are telling you nothing but the truth in this matter.

[iCHIGo]

Ello! i donno what id do... i might decide to enjoy whats givin to me and let everyone else die later on, but i also might decise that humanity can choose thier own fate-whether it be good or bad. i really couldnt say! cuz id wanna live life free of pain and etc, but i wouldnt wanna be the one who destroyed the world years later... its very hard to answer!! thanked for one thing, cursed for another. oh well, i guess i couldnt live with my self if i knew i was resposible for all the deaths-to-be... -_-

[She]

I don't think that I would, at least not without knowing who the other people captured were. I wouldn't want the decision of killing my loved ones...that'd be horrible and unmoral.

[Anachlirium]

decline. everyone was put here for a reason, and whatever mess we got ourselves into we have to get ourselves out of, alone.

Life doesn't come easy, and I think that is natures way. To give my own self up inorder to gain from others would be doing something unnatural. Though nature (as being imperfect) does not promise an easy life.....what is does promise is the right to choose , and I say that i would rather live a few bum years then have my grand children killed just because I couldn't choose to make the descions in life that would have made me happier.

[Malahk Musashi]

I would make my own proposition to them: Instead of them just giving us their technology, I would suggest to them that they become our intergalactic partners. Not living here (obviously), but not being afraid to visit freely. Humanity was put here to forge our own future, not to let an alien race lead us to our demise through pleasantries. Besides, my suggestion would put to rest all the skepticism about life outside of Earth.

[Nin`]

Originally Posted by al_bhed_psycho

...everyone was put here for a reason...

Which is...?

Originally Posted by cheesevixen

Life doesn't come easy, and I think that is natures way. To give my own self up inorder to gain from others would be doing something unnatural.

I dont understand this, why would giving yourself up in order to gain from others be considered unnatural? What do you mean, can you explain this?

I dont think I fully understood your answer either, your saying that you would rather live a poor life so that your decendants may survive?
But if your going to die why worry about it? why not live out the rest of your life in bliss?

Originally Posted by Musashiden

I would make my own proposition to them: Instead of them just giving us their technology, I would suggest to them that they become our intergalactic partners. Not living here (obviously), but not being afraid to visit freely. Humanity was put here to forge our own future, not to let an alien race lead us to our demise through pleasantries. Besides, my suggestion would put to rest all the skepticism about life outside of Earth.

Okay, but this doesn't answer the question. When you say "humanity was put here" what do you mean, how was he "put" here? How do you know that these Aliens are not the cause, and responsible for the rise humanity?

What if they declined your offer? and how would your suggestion put an end to skepticism? a suggestion proves nothing alone, you would need evidence to put an end to peoples skepticism about life outside Earth.

[Malahk Musashi]

My response is assuming they accept my offer. If they declined, no biggie... unless of course they take offense to it.

Also, how am I supposed to take such things as we as a race being their spawn into account when that information is not given? Also, if they had this technology, let's assume they themselves were using it, also assuming because of this technology they have been evolving either faster or longer than us, would it not have destroyed them by now? Also, I say humanity was put here to walk our own path because even though I have given up on Christianity, I do believe a higher power created everything, beacause something as expansive as the universe could not have been by accident. The big bang theory claims that imaginary space surrounded the universe before the "egg" exploded, but where did that imaginary space come from, and was there something that created that imaginary space? Also, taking into account that the universe is constanly growing, one must know that stars do not come from nothing. I believe they are created. Don't get me wrong, I don't think whatever higher power that created this universe is an ever vengeful deity with a paradise and a brimstone pit, but more or less an architect, whose contract hasn't expired yet. Also, if this alien race was that higher power, what right would we have to refer to them as anything but divine?

Also, how would an alien race mingling with this one not end skepticism? Intergalactic dignitaries arriving in massively advanced ships would only stir skepticism in the blind.

Originally Posted by Lucifer`

I dont understand this, why would giving yourself up in order to gain from others be considered unnatural? What do you mean, can you explain this?

I dont think I fully understood your answer either, your saying that you would rather live a poor life so that your decendants may survive?
But if your going to die why worry about it? why not live out the rest of your life in bliss?

I don't mind explaining at all. Sometimes it is hard to depict what someone is saying just by text alone.

By unnatural I meant that having a "cure all" ...an not letting life run it's natural course is not the "natural" way things are supposed to be.Life is supposed to be hard, and it also comes with sweetness also (dont get me wrong). An children to me is one of those sweetnesses. (The fact that we go on through our children in some way.) Wanting to disrupt the natural course of my life for personal gain an end my children's lives, is not worth it.... accepting something like that. The bad things in life (As well as the good things) define character. An it would be a little selfish to me to live 70 years in bliss yet bring hell upon my children. I believe the "natural" way of life is that IF you are poor, sick, depressed, or jobless than you have to live your life in the right way, and by doing that you will be happier; an your children will live on an learn from that.If you can't have control in your life than a "cure all" looks good, but that is for people that aren't willing to make the efforts in life to change. I believe fate is in our hands. I would Rather work for everything an keep my legacy.Accepting a "cure all" would be attempting to act like a God in a way. Yes I will die some day, but it is the hope that I raise my children correctly, know that I have worked to gain what I actually deserve.... an that I live my life inorder to make me an my family happy will make me happy. No "cure all" could make me happy about losing my future generations, and YES I do care. Sometimes it is selfish to only thing about what will make you happy. Instead of what is important. The world is the way it is because we do not help eachother as much as we should. I am guilty of this too, but a "cure all" is not the answer.

[Nin`]

Originally Posted by Musashiden

Also, how am I supposed to take such things as we as a race being their spawn into account when that information is not given?

Becuase you asserted:

Originally Posted by Musashiden

Humanity was put here

Taking this into account one is able to establish the possibility that humanity was placed here by such Aliens. Other pieces of evidence would come from what they look like and how they act and interact by comparison with us since you would be able to see them upon their proposal.

Originally Posted by Musashiden

Also, if they had this technology, let's assume they themselves were using it, also assuming because of this technology they have been evolving either faster or longer than us, would it not have destroyed them by now?

If they were much more intelligent then humanity (which is almost certain) they would not use it at all in its current state. Instead they would much more likely perform experiments to establish way to improve such technology so that they may attempt to use it on themselve's with indefinite effects. In otherwords, we would likely be a test subject for such technology in order for them to advance it.

Originally Posted by Musashiden

Also, I say humanity was put here to walk our own path because even though I have given up on Christianity, I do believe a higher power created everything, beacause something as expansive as the universe could not have been by accident.

Are you refering here to the anthropic fallacy?

The primary failure with this is that we weyken our Universe could have evolved in many, many different ways, with many possible rules ("laws"). A substantial number of those ways could well result in (possibly different from stars and planets) heat sources and voids with sufficient energy and matter in proximity for long enough for some kind of thing which we would grant is a life form, were we around to analyse it, to develop. Such life forms may be very different from us, but then, e.g. Sulfolobus thermoacidophile archaea are different from us too. And had our planet been just a little closer to the Sun, the Sun a little warmer, or the Earth a little better insulated, the planetary temperature might have stayed over 100C all the time and the descendents of Sulfolobus might well have ruled the Earth, rather than us eukaryotic types.

In effect this agrees with studies into Quantum Mechanics.
Quantum Mechanics suggests that every possibility does indeed happen and take place in what are known as parallel universes. In such an existence there would be no "accidents" just possibilities which inevitably take place, so every outcome occurs.

I don't know about most creationists, but do know the age of the Universe to an astonishing degree of accuracy (13.7 billion years with a 1% error margin). I also don't think we should bother too much with "seeding" unless some strong evidence arises indicating that this was the likely life trigger mechanism, as this simply passes the "genesis of life" issue to some other location, less accessible to us than the fairly well understood evidence of the processes which occurred on planet Earth which has lead to good (strong) hypotheses which don't need any external involvement to explain the transition from chemical adaption to primitive life

Originally Posted by Musashiden

The big bang theory claims that imaginary space surrounded the universe before the "egg" exploded, but where did that imaginary space come from, and was there something that created that imaginary space?

As a suggestion, be careful of terms like "before" when they relate to our Universe. The current (strong) scientific consensus is that the Universe was instantiated in the Big Bang. The (weaker) consensus is that the the Big Bang was triggered by a fluctuation in the quantum flux. A few moments later, our Universe, including space-time was instantiated. Since there was no time before matter existed, so there can have been no before. Discussing causation under such circumstances is a little like asking what comes 3 hours after purple (i.e. it makes no sense whatever).

A useful piece of god-probability-obliterating information is that as far as we know (and we know rather a lot about elementary particles these days) no thing which is not baryonic (the class of particle (matter) of which our Universe is assembled) can interact with a thing which is baryonic in any meaningful way without breaking an awful lot of fairly well established laws (predictive hypothesis founded in observation) about information (e.g. Heisenberg). So the probability that anything from "outside" our space-time (another meaningless concept as the act of describing it would instantiate it within our Universe) could interact with objects within our Universe without resulting in the evaporation of the Universe appears to be from minuscule to non-existent. Which doesn't leave much space for magical thingies.

Originally Posted by Musashiden

Also, taking into account that the universe is constanly growing, one must know that stars do not come from nothing. I believe they are created.

Create is the wrong word here. It would be more accurate to say that stars, like all matter are initiated which undergo instantiation (not "creation", "creation" requires "intent"). This instantiation can be explained thus: Energy at the Planck scale osculate's, oscillate's and vibrates in multlepul dimentions of spacetime which in turn (due to this rhythmic motion of energy) gives way to the fundamental particles of nature.

The nature of these particles are determined via the rhythmic motion of the energy they come from. Stars (from these particles) are formed within molecular clouds with the aid of gravity. These clouds are made up mostly by particles of hydrogen with about 23–28% helium. As stars are formed from these clouds via gravity acting between individual particles a globule collapses and the density increases, this gravitational energy is converted into heat and the temperature rises. When the protostellar cloud has reached a reletive hydrostatic equilibrium, a protostar will form at the core, this powerfully illuminates the clouds from which such a star is formed, creating an H II region. Once a region of such particles reach a sufficient density of matter and satisfy the initiation process for Jeans Instability it will begin to collapse under its own sheer gravitational force.

This is more or less how a star is initiated via energy fluctuations, not created since no known intent is applied or given.

Originally Posted by Musashiden

Also, if this alien race was that higher power, what right would we have to refer to them as anything but divine?

It would depend on ones definition of what actually makes something "divine".

Originally Posted by Musashiden

Also, how would an alien race mingling with this one not end skepticism? Intergalactic dignitaries arriving in massively advanced ships would only stir skepticism in the blind.

I never said that the whole world would be aware of their presence, only that you and possibly a few others (unverified) would.


Lucifer

[Sir Andrew]

Well, from me... i'd accept there proposition. To live without any disease pain and suffering, and in the 1000 years, would try to create the biggest and most defencive force the earth has ever seen to destroy the invaders on there way.