Reunion Confusion

[Shaun Taylor 18]

I'm slightly confused about some of what happens in the whirlwind maze...

Once you get to the whirlwind maze, you see Sephiroth killing some of the clones? Why?

The only thing I can think of is that once they reach the whirlwind maze, they have got close enough for the reunion- which would also explain why all of the rest seem to die somehow as well.

What do you all think?

[D_SINNER]

my theory is that they're not exactly clones, just like cloud isnt a clone of sephiroth, but more like hojo's experiments to try and morph people into sephiroth. the "clones" are weaker, hence, not all of them manage to make it to the end of the reunion. i think the reunion is sephiroth calling out everyone that has been over exposed to mako and jenova cells.

Only those who are strong can survive. Sephiroth killed off the weaker ones, because (my theory is) is that they could effect how strong Jenova is once shes "reborn".

[amFu]

i think it is like hazing but slightly more extreme is yuor not tough enough then you die.

[Anomaly]

The JENOVA cells can only re-enter the lifestream as negative lifestream energy upon the death of someone infected by JENOVA cells. The true body of JENOVA itself remains seperate from the Lifestream as it is an alien entity and not subject to the laws of the Planet. The Reunion is as much a physical thing as a spiritual thing. He who went about killing the clones was not Sephiroth, but the body of Jenova changed into Sephiroths form and manipulated by his will. It was his will that Jenova be destroyed so she could reform into the negative spirit energy that he, himself, could use for power in both summoning Meteor and augmenting his own strength.

That is what the Reunion is really about. Sephiroths only real mistake is that he didn't kill Cloud after Cloud, like the good little puppet he was, handed over the Black Materia.

[Shaun Taylor 18]

Originally Posted by Anomaly

He who went about killing the clones was not Sephiroth, but the body of Jenova changed into Sephiroths form and manipulated by his will.

Yeah, I know that.

The thing that confuses me is that why do the cells need to enter the lifestream, when JENOVA's body is wandering the planet being pursued by Cloud etc. in the form of Sephiroth? Or when Sephiroth/JENOVA says something about "there being no use for this body anymore"- or something to that effect- at the Whirlwind maze, does JENOVA's body re-enter the lifestream?

[Anomaly]

It is because of Sephiroth. Jenova reforming would be a good thing for the JENOVA cells, but not necissarily for Sephiroth. for Sephiroth to harness their power, yes, they would need to enter the lifestream or a 'lifestream state' so that they could have a spiritual reunion with their 'son' cells within Sephiroth. It is not just JENOVA's cells, but Sephiroths will that drives the Reunion.

[Shaun Taylor 18]

So, what you're saying is that the Reunion was more about allowing Sephiroth to harness the power of the "missing" JENOVA cells- hence him killing them- than re-forming JENOVA?

[Anomaly]

Depends on your point of view. The goals of JENOVA's instincts are roughly the same as Sephiroths will. It could be argued that Sephiroth allowed JENOVA to Reunite in a way it couldn't on its own (by being unsealed and released into the lifestream). Generally, however, JENOVA cells aiding their 'master' and 'mother' aiding her son was the primary goal of the REUNION in general. no...it really wasn't about the JENOVA peices reuniting at all...it was about Summoning Meteor so that Sephiroth, and through him JENOVA, could become one with the lifestream...and rule it as a reborn god-being.

[Shaun Taylor 18]

...and could you explain again why/how Sephiroth uses the JENOVA cells?

Sorry, but this is a slightly new concept and its different from what I previously believed. And I'm a little bit slow tonight

[Anomaly]

Right, lets start with basics.

Sephiroth is what you get when JENOVA cells and human cells grow side by side ot make a single being. He is not a true hybrid, but he is by no means a mere human nor a full member of JENOVA's race. However, he is still her 'son'. As such, he has command over her cells, and through those cells, the minds and souls of the bodies that they occupy. They are the strings that allow Sephiroth to manipulate things from the North Crater.

Aside from this, the JENOVA cells each have the powers of Jenova as a whole. What are these powers? The power to change ones looks, voice, and words to deceive potential prey, making them supremely useful in fooling humans and slipping through their populace. They also pocess some of the latent instincts of JENOVA, which are to inflitrate, infect, and reproduce. Basically the same instincts of a virus.

During the game, FF7, all the JENOVA cells have either been injected into SOLDIERS, Sephiroth clones, or left to stew in a vat in the Shin-Ra Building. While this gives Sephiroth control of many strong puppets to do his work, it doesn't give him THE PLANET. That is his ultimate goal. His main route to achive this is to summon METEOR. Doing such will decimate life on the Planet, unleashing vast amounts of spiritual energy that Sephiroth can become one with.

That will be the infiltration process, which he has already carried out in the North Crater. The infection has already begun with the souls of the dead, but Sephiroth would need to bind hismelf to all the souls of the Planet to become a true god-like being. Reproduction, of course, comes later on. i'm gettign to that.

METEOR was a good shot, but Sephiroth had a back up plan in motion...namely the REUNION. If he could gather together JENOVA's cells and put them into the lifestream along with the souls of the dead it would cause a wider array of infection, and thus reproduction. This is what results in 'Geostigma'. When the METEOR project fails, the back up project goes into effect with the sporeading of the Lifestream to aid Holy in the defense agaisnt Meteor. Sephiroth held Holy back just long enough so that he would be ensured to be reborn.

Once reborn, he would have command over a whole NEW ever RENEWING populace of puppets being born with and dying from Geostigma. This results in negative lifestream energy (that which is bound to Sephiroths will) and also leeches the mako from the Planet resulting in Planet death. This way Sephiroth can inadvertantly become 'one' with the planet by allowing the JENOVA cells to fulfill their purpose. the end of this back up plan is that after the Planet has decayed from the inside out, Sephiroth will use its husk to find a new Planet in which ot start the process of becoming a god all over again. To make his own promised land, for himself, and for the reminant of his mother.

[Shaun Taylor 18]

I knew all the beginning parts. I only needed the end part

Originally Posted by Anomaly

and also leeches the mako from the Planet

Is that because once the lifestream energy becomes negative, it is no longer a part of the planet/cannot become a part of the lifestream properly again?

And the way you've worded the part about the lifestream aiding holy makes it sound as if it was Sephiroth's doing. Wasn't it more of a convenient coincidence for Sephiroth?

[Anomaly]

Originally Posted by Shaun Taylor 18

Is that because once the lifestream energy becomes negative, it is no longer a part of the planet/cannot become a part of the lifestream properly again?

Thats the idea really. It's kind of bunked by Aeris Great Gospel in the end. It would seem that the Planet is capable of purging infected humans, if not infected lifestream energy. How successful the purge in Advent Children was will not be revealed until later games though.

And the way you've worded the part about the lifestream aiding holy makes it sound as if it was Sephiroth's doing. Wasn't it more of a convenient coincidence for Sephiroth?

I personally believe he planned it. I mean he's been soaking up lifestream energy for years now. He became a traveler of the lifestream...he knows its ways and workings. I don't think he CAUSED it so much as he anticipated it.

[Shaun Taylor 18]

Originally Posted by Anomaly

I personally believe he planned it. I mean he's been soaking up lifestream energy for years now. He became a traveler of the lifestream...he knows its ways and workings. I don't think he CAUSED it so much as he anticipated it.

Makes perfect sense. I agree, it was more probably that he anticipated it.

Originally Posted by Anomaly

How successful the purge in Advent Children was will not be revealed until later games though.

Probably depends on how much further they decide they wanna take the compilation