Kefka puts Sepiroth to shame

[CrowX]

Originally Posted by Eisole

In terms of boss fights, they're both weak.

And in terms of personality, Kefka wins... but Sephiroth is very close.

In terms of fashion, definately Sephiroth.

This isn't a competition... they're high-quality villains of different genres (Medieval vs Modern)

Couldn't of said it any better i agree with all you said.

[Kytte]

Normally I woudn't say it but as I am annoyed at 7's popularity lol yes Kefka does own Sephiroth

[Zargabaath]

While many FF fans glorify Kefka, I was dissapointed. Yes, he does get what he wants howerver in the end is no different from any cliche villian; wanting to destroy the world. His first goal damaged the world not destroy for it was still there. His backstory is very minimal which hurts, his personality in the WoB is great, but in the WoR he gets no scenes except for the finale leaving his growth abruptly stopped at the end of the WoB. I found that to be poor execution. The backstory can be forgiven but leaving him out the majority of the WoR dimishes his story. It was a huge oppurtunity to further his insanity in the WoR but all he does is one Light of Salvation and the finale, severely lacking action hurt Kefka.

[Loaf]

Well the main part of WoR is actually supposed to just be Celes, Setzer and Edgar. (Mainly because you MUST get them to advance the story) Once you get the airship you can go and fight Kefka right away. In a sense, that is what really is supposed to happen IMO. Grabbing the rest of the party is a side quest in my book. So, putting it that way, WoR isn't that long and thus doesn't need scenes with Kefka in it except for the end where you fight him.

[T.G. Oskar]

Technically, you could finish the game with three people considering they are underarmed, underpowered, and severely lacking partners to aid whenever the thing gets rough. The last dungeon was designed to use the property of the multiple party system, and the challenges are set for that purpose. It's very, very hard to attempt a run through the Tower while using one person per party.

As for how Kefka is a weak villain, let me go through some points. Kefka, as you said, evolved from what was apparently a comic relief villain to a devious mastermind. Indeed, he ends up with the cliche villain desire of "destroying the world", but by the moment he gains the power of the Statues/Warring Triad, this thought didn't passed through his mind. At that moment, he was obsessed with the power of the Statues; his idea was that he grew up to the power of a God, and that satisfied his goal. In that sense, he achieved his purpose, and that unlocked his desire to destroy the world. Indeed, fortunate for the group he merely became content on showing his powers to the world, and turning it into the World of Ruin. Only after they reach the top of the tower (two years later, I might add), he becomes obsessed with the idea of destroying the world completely, or rather, took that as his final objective.

However, there is some truth in your argument: Kefka evolved as a villain, but the events of the World of Ruin cut that short, from a villain rising into power to a power-drunk villain seeking more. Indeed, the WoR segment provides little if no evolution to the story, presenting itself as a series of events that could or could not have happened. However, it is important to note that what little progress he has, he makes good worth of it; he personally addresses the heroes and mocks them, as a good villain does. Cliche isn't that bad when it's used properly; it becomes something expected, and something that reinforces the quality or the purpose of the villain, and thus reinforces the hero. I would say, it made excellent work even though it was little.

Also, it's not like Kefka is the best villain ever. It's a great villain, indeed; he got all of the qualities that make villains repulsive. But from that to the best villain ever, difficult; after all, the Joker can match or even surpass him, and Joker isn't super-powered or magically skilled as Kefka does (except in the comic of 'Superman in Planet Joker'). However, look at it the opposite way; he's not the best villain, but he's a darn evil guy and deserving of our hatred nonetheless (in terms of hatred for his acts, not in terms of popularity) There are other people that could match or surpass him; however, I feel Sephy is not one of them.

[Zargabaath]

His mockery of the party at the end was weak and out-of-place, especially compared to his earlier dialogue. I agree cliche isn't bad (Exdeath), however Kefka was not cliche throughout the game; ending him in such a way diminishes the character. Kefka was a great villian, I did hate him. He is one of those villians that the party had the power to stop but Kefka was able escape and survive to the top. I'll leave my opinion on Sephiroth for a different place.

[Exxdeath666]

Originally Posted by Zargabaath

His mockery of the party at the end was weak and out-of-place, especially compared to his earlier dialogue. I agree cliche isn't bad (Exdeath), however Kefka was not cliche throughout the game; ending him in such a way diminishes the character. Kefka was a great villian, I did hate him. He is one of those villians that the party had the power to stop but Kefka was able escape and survive to the top. I'll leave my opinion on Sephiroth for a different place.

I'm inclined to agree with Zargabaath on this one, cliche isn't bad, but I don't think you can especially mix superb character development with cliche. A villain must be consistent or the villain's charm disappears and people lose interest. That's actually how I felt with Kefka. Sure, destroying the world in his innovative way was entertaining for a short while, but other villains approached the cliche aspect in a more entertaining way (Exdeath burning down a forest he was born in, one that took up a whole continent, then in the combined world proceeded to engulf practically every region in the infinite power of the Void; Golbez activating the Giant of Babel to decimate a continent, threatening the world and causing them to take action, thus starting a world war; Emperor Mateus Palamecia erecting the PALACE OF HELL, PANDEMONIUM ONTO EARTH!!! etc., etc.).

Furthermore, like Zarg, I don't hate Kefka either. He'd make it on my 4th favorite villain spot. However, I do not make a big deal about his achievements because I also know that in his role as a villain he did have limitations. Therefore, his clash of personality and cliche make him a bit less popular to me than Exdeath and Kuja.

[V_Translanka]

The WoB is more about Kefka (& the Empire) gaining power...The WoR is about the consequences of that power being gained. And about all this "Kefka is a cliche villain out to destroy the world" nonsense...He rearranged the face of the planet basically as an afterthought and, yes, because he didn't care...His ultimate goal wasn't something as average as the destruction of the planet...he was after the annihilation of HOPE. There is no loftier goal for a villain if you ask me. And if not for Celes rounding everyone up & cheering everyone up again, he practically had it in the bag.

That's what the WoR is about, seeing what a year under his reign had brought unto the world and why you don't have to actually see him & talk to him a bunch for him to get character development at that point. Everything you see serves to urge the party on and/or remember why they hate him in the first place.

[Exxdeath666]

Originally Posted by V_Translanka

The WoB is more about Kefka (& the Empire) gaining power...The WoR is about the consequences of that power being gained. And about all this "Kefka is a cliche villain out to destroy the world" nonsense...He rearranged the face of the planet basically as an afterthought and, yes, because he didn't care...His ultimate goal wasn't something as average as the destruction of the planet...he was after the annihilation of HOPE. There is no loftier goal for a villain if you ask me. And if not for Celes rounding everyone up & cheering everyone up again, he practically had it in the bag.

Yeah, and I definitely understand that he wasn't exactly a cliche villain. Maybe he had some elements of a villain that had already been done before, but then, even those are few, and personality-wise he kind of wins as a villain. However, in saying that, you need to understand that society and Critics alll over the place are constantly getting it into people's minds that cliche is a bad thing, and I'm here to say that that's not always true.

No, it is only a bit aggrivating when they try to combine too many unique elements into the character while giving him quite a few things we've already seen before (*coughjokercough*). I'm just here to conclude my statement: cliche may not be bad (Exdeath, my favorite villain, for example), but if you try to pass off a cliche idea off as your own by adding a few more recognizable character traits, you're only fooling yourself.

[Zargabaath]

It is true he wanted to destroy hope and in order to do that he was going to destroy the planet (cliche and dissapointing for his character). Kefka does have a great personality, one of the driving forces behind his popularity, cause it set him apart from his predecessors. Villians have wanted to destroy the planet before Kefka, and in turn that would destroy hope, for it would people would cease to exist for them to hope. A truly grandiose way to accomplish that for example would have been to wipe out the emotion from humanity with his magic, a truly impressive feat, more impressive than destroying the world, that had not been done before and still may not be. Life without hope is crueler than no life for there is no emotion, but to live without hope at all is immensely sadist which Kefka is.

Celes rounding up everyone is optional she plays a role in some of those scenarios not all, but is not central in the story in the WoR for there really is none, just a bunch of sidequests that add character development nothing to the overall story. Sabin joins up with her because he is the first person he meets of the party, she does not "cheer" him up for he knew what must be done. Edgar needed no cheering either, he saw a Celes and Sabin and said that Kefka was more important than the theives and Celes says, " So you'll come along?" without even asking him to. Cyan too needs no cheering either and joins automatically without and aide from Celes. Gau tells Cyan he's going to the Veldt to train so he can smash Kefka, Celes has no role. Shadow in the colo says all knows how to do is fight, then is asked, "why dont you come with us?", no cheering one again, celes very minimal role. Setzer needed cheering from Celes. Terra needed more time to understand her feeling, she received no cheering up from Celes, plus Terra was not depressed just confused on this emotion and thus could not fight; once she understood it was love she could then fight. Rachel puts Locke's heart at ease enabling Locke to do the necessary job, Celes had no role yet again. Ramuh appears in Mog's dreams saying to help you, no role from Celes whatsoever, no cheering up involved. Umaro joins because of Mog, and Umaro is just happy to be able to throw people ( I love Umaro). The party helps out Relm with Chadarnook, then says she'll return to finish the painty. Relm needed no cheering yet again Celes's role is minimal to zero. Strago comes to his senses from the help of Relm, NOT Celes, no role her once more. Gogo joins for it will copy every move you do, apparntly that means in saving the world to. Minimal role for Celes, even though it is the lead member who explains what the party is set on doing, not Celes. That's everyone as you see your stance on Celes cheering up everyone and gathering them is defeated. Only Setzer needed cheering from Celes and it's more along the lines of whoever is lead does the talking for the optional characters.

In the WoR, Kefka declines on his evil deeds, leaving Kefka to be idle. Him disrupting the Warring Triad cause the world's surface to be rearranged, but Kefka fell off the face of the world. Kefka doesn't attempt to try stop the party, who are full of hope I might add, or toy with him claiming it is futile to challenge his power. Kefka sits on top of his tower with twiddling his thumbs. That is not a good job in any character development. Kefka is kinda like a hill. The beginning of his life, his past, is very minute. The WoB is the zenith of his character, top of the hill, and the WoR he is absent, the other end of the hill.

[T.G. Oskar]

Originally Posted by Zargabaath

It is true he wanted to destroy hope and in order to do that he was going to destroy the planet (cliche and dissapointing for his character). Kefka does have a great personality, one of the driving forces behind his popularity, cause it set him apart from his predecessors. Villians have wanted to destroy the planet before Kefka, and in turn that would destroy hope, for it would people would cease to exist for them to hope. A truly grandiose way to accomplish that for example would have been to wipe out the emotion from humanity with his magic, a truly impressive feat, more impressive than destroying the world, that had not been done before and still may not be. Life without hope is crueler than no life for there is no emotion, but to live without hope at all is immensely sadist which Kefka is.

Which, technically, is what he attempts to do. And also adds to his frustration: he has caused humanity to lose all hope, without the direct intervention of Magic, but rather through the consequences of its use. The little bit about Celes is the turning point, the denouement of the story: in a place where all hope is lost, she finds hope and seeks to return it to the world. Everybody seeks to cling to their own hope, and they just need a slight push. Sometimes, a bit more than a push: such as Setzer finally accepting the death of Daryl and breaking the taboo on using her airship, which grants him his wings again and serves as a beacon of hope, or otherwise climbing the Tower would be impossible; Terra needs TWO pushes to move forward, in order to face the fact she needs to fight and use the very abilities that condemned the world in order to save it; Cyan and his quest for atonement for failing his country, which ends in Alexander comforting him and offering his services as a proxy of his lord, making him realize he did more than he could, and that life must go on. His liberal use of the Light of Judgment around the world is the amount of frustration in realizing hope goes on despite his works.

And hey, even the best villains have their times when they seem to do something stupid. Kefka isn't Dangerously Genre Savvy; his mistake is believing he broke the hope of the world, and he gets mighty frustrated when he realizes his plans backfired. Were you to expect Kefka to actively making their lives impossible is asking him to replace the fekkin' Devil, for goodness' sake. He's already psychotic and evil and misanthropic and nihilist as he is; you just wanted him to be the embodiment of all evil.

Though he could have kicked some more puppies while at it

Celes rounding up everyone is optional she plays a role in some of those scenarios not all, but is not central in the story in the WoR for there really is none, just a bunch of sidequests that add character development nothing to the overall story. Sabin joins up with her because he is the first person he meets of the party, she does not "cheer" him up for he knew what must be done. Edgar needed no cheering either, he saw a Celes and Sabin and said that Kefka was more important than the theives and Celes says, " So you'll come along?" without even asking him to. Cyan too needs no cheering either and joins automatically without and aide from Celes. Gau tells Cyan he's going to the Veldt to train so he can smash Kefka, Celes has no role. Shadow in the colo says all knows how to do is fight, then is asked, "why dont you come with us?", no cheering one again, celes very minimal role. Setzer needed cheering from Celes. Terra needed more time to understand her feeling, she received no cheering up from Celes, plus Terra was not depressed just confused on this emotion and thus could not fight; once she understood it was love she could then fight. Rachel puts Locke's heart at ease enabling Locke to do the necessary job, Celes had no role yet again. Ramuh appears in Mog's dreams saying to help you, no role from Celes whatsoever, no cheering up involved. Umaro joins because of Mog, and Umaro is just happy to be able to throw people ( I love Umaro). The party helps out Relm with Chadarnook, then says she'll return to finish the painty. Relm needed no cheering yet again Celes's role is minimal to zero. Strago comes to his senses from the help of Relm, NOT Celes, no role her once more. Gogo joins for it will copy every move you do, apparntly that means in saving the world to. Minimal role for Celes, even though it is the lead member who explains what the party is set on doing, not Celes. That's everyone as you see your stance on Celes cheering up everyone and gathering them is defeated. Only Setzer needed cheering from Celes and it's more along the lines of whoever is lead does the talking for the optional characters.

In the WoR, Kefka declines on his evil deeds, leaving Kefka to be idle. Him disrupting the Warring Triad cause the world's surface to be rearranged, but Kefka fell off the face of the world. Kefka doesn't attempt to try stop the party, who are full of hope I might add, or toy with him claiming it is futile to challenge his power. Kefka sits on top of his tower with twiddling his thumbs. That is not a good job in any character development. Kefka is kinda like a hill. The beginning of his life, his past, is very minute. The WoB is the zenith of his character, top of the hill, and the WoR he is absent, the other end of the hill.

Question: does a being that call itself a god would dare try to stop the party, when he thinks himself undefeatable? No, that would be shaving his concept of a god of Magic.

Second question: just how old do you think this story is? At its time, it was a revolutionary game and a revolutionary villain, different from others in its particular niche (sure, the Joker was already around, but he was touted as a campy villain that did pranks, or "boners" as they called it). Times have changed, and so did the mentality of people around: what's considered cliche now wasn't considered as such time ago. This doesn't serve a lot as an excuse, but it is something to consider; despite his apparent flaws by means of evolution of character development, he still stands as a brutal villain.

[Zargabaath]

Terra never lost hope, that is not what is conveyed in the story. She lost the ability to fight because she was trying to figure out "love" Celes never pushed her in any way. Most of the characters did not need any push, the dialogue in the game reveals all. Celes being a catalyst no matter how small is cleary not shown in the game. Another point is after the required 3 characters join, the dialogue to the optional is based on whoever is the party leader, Celes does not take an active role, therefore lessening her sense of a lead character. Celes is a horrible leader in the WoR, they try to base it around her but don't execute. The dialogue says it all, Celes helped Setzer and that's it, everyone else it's based on the party lead except Strago as mentioned before, meaning Celes can be cut out. Celes providing hope is simply not true, and it's not like I'm using no evidence, I have the game itself to back me up. I put all the characters situations down, there can be no differing opinion on which is the source tells.

Unfortunately, Kefka uses the Light of Judgement once, that you actually see. I know he used it a lot more however, I believe he should have used it more times for a visual connection to how horrible he was. Remember actions speak louder than words. Kefka may have used it multiple times but that does not spark an emotional response as actually seeing it happen.

The break from linearity is why I believe this game at the time was so well received, people were so infatuated by the freedom that they said it is a great game, but when you get down to it, there is a lot missing to make it a great story. I liked where the story was going in the WoB but the WoR was a total failure.

Kefka was brutal... in the WoB, and different. I just believe people over rate VI just for being so different being blind to it's flaws. Remember, different doesn't equate to being better.

[V_Translanka]

I basically said Celes rounds them up because she's the first one you control in the WoR...and I don't see it as just being "optional"...it's canon as far as I'm concerned for everyone to get back together to smash Kefka.

I think seeing how everyone is living and listening to their reactions under the reign of Kefka is just as impactful, if not moreso, than physically seeing him use the Light more (which would probably just get repetitive)..."actions speak louder than words" is oversimplifying it. That's like saying movies are inherently better than books or something.

[T.G. Oskar]

I must dissent even further. Terra's story of a lack of knowledge about love seems to be lost within the World of Ruin, since she definitely stands up for the children. Yet, she can't seem to gather the courage to stand for them, out of confusion. And by that point, trying to keep a concept of "I dunno what love is" seems to be beyond the point. It's a track change, true. Still, she loses hope. And Celes & co. are there to stand for it. Otherwise, why the importance placed by Banon and the Returners in making her the "ray of Hope" they sought for so long? The theme of Hope is predominant in the story; Terra's lack of knowledge about love is secondary in that aspect. And it's that aspect that shines in the World of Ruin: she was beginning to lose hope, just like the entire world. And in a place where hope is lost, frivolous diversions pave way (hence, the Dragon's Neck Colosseum)

Also, it's a bit funny that you can resume Terra's secondary drive in two songs: Foreigner's "I Wanna Know What Love Is" to Whitesnake's "Is This Love" (when she stands for the children).

However, when you "over rate" something, exalting their virtues over the flaws, it tells of a great game. A game that has a balance of virtues and flaws that are evident doesn't make a great game; a game whose virtues overshadow the flaws makes for a great game. In your line of reasoning (or so I perceive), FFVI's flaws are inexcusable and they make for a crappy game. But that's relative: I love the game, I must admit (or otherwise I wouldn't be on TFF and defending this particular game, am I right?), and I've never cared to stop and point the flaws of the game and say "hey, this game isn't as great as you guys think". The story behind the game is so wonderful, and it appeals so deeply to me, that I blatantly ignored all the flaws. I can't say the same, for example, of the Final Fantasy games after them: they haven't reached the same way as this one did.

And if you want to look for something that would make me dislike FFVI, the skill mechanics aren't as impressive as I would have liked them (I'm a clear advocate of the class system, which makes me prefer Final Fantasy Tactics and its sequels over other games of the genre), yet I've plausibly ignored that because the story more than makes up for it. I like FFVI because of the whole package, to the point even what you may consider flawed is something I like.

I'd like to look for a good example of a perfect game, but I cannot; each game has its flaws and virtues, and sometimes the virtues you seek in the game don't exist, which makes you face the flaws, and hence blame the game as bad, or at least barely tolerable.

Finally...it's a pretty epic game crammed into a SNES cart; memory issues could have affected the end parts of the game. Also, think of Xenogears: pretty much one of the best RPGs ever in the history of games, and the last part was so badly screwed up, yet it doesn't make a dent on how good the game is. Great games can't be evaluated on how perfect they are, but on how the flaws become unnoticeable on a large group of people because of the great qualities of the game.

And honestly, if I can't make you at least recognize something with this already long and winded rant, I dunno of how else to convince you. Besides, this has stretched a bit from the original purpose of the thread, since there's no actual argument defending Sephiroth's value upon the value of Kefka, but rather a random yet valuable argument of flaws which presupposes a defense of "well, your fave villain isn't so hot either, so why bother?" That defense still doesn't make justice to Seph's case, IMO.

[Zargabaath]

Originally Posted by V_Translanka

I basically said Celes rounds them up because she's the first one you control in the WoR...and I don't see it as just being "optional"...it's canon as far as I'm concerned for everyone to get back together to smash Kefka.

actions speak louder than words" is oversimplifying it. That's like saying movies are inherently better than books or something.

You may not see it as optional however it is optional plain and simple. Quick question: Does the game make you get all the characters back? The answer is: No, therefore it is optional. You can't deny a simple fact such as that. I love to read, however the medium is different; in books you must imagine what is taking place.


FFVI is a good game to me, I was dissapointed cause I heard great views of the game. The WoB story was great the characters were great, music was second in the series to me, battle system great to me, the WoR was subpar. That ended a game that was a great track on a very sour note.

While Sephiroth is not my favorite villian, I do like him more than Kefka. Sephiroth's manipulation of Cloud is very cunning and was a hard realization Cloud had to deal with. This form of manipulation was subtle making it have more of an impact compared to, "I have your mother do I as say". Cloud being oblivious adds to Sephiroth's actions. Sephiroth wasn't as cruel as Kefka, it wasn't his style. I do like Sephiroth's goal better than both of Kefka's, wanting the power of the Warring Triad and then world destruction, Sephiroth's being he wanted to severely damage the planet to so it he could gather the power sent to heal the wound (it would also wipe out humanity), and then create a new Promised land when he created the new centra. I found that to be more unique and fresh. I was more connected with Sephiroth in his plight with his identity of what he is, meaning I liked his backstory more than Kefka's. Kefka has the more vibrant personality, yet I liked how Sephiroth "attacked" Cloud's self-esteem of being a tool; I prefer the psychological aspects in a rpg.

Sidenote: I loved Xenogears, most likely in my top 5 rpgs of all time, at first I did not like the second half of the game either, but it grew on me. It was definitely not perfect, more along the lines of alright. I did like how the narrators got in the thoughts of the characters when they told the story, it did ruin the ending though since the player knows that at least those who are narrating survive.

[V_Translanka]

That's like saying all of Chrono Trigger is optional after you get to the End of Time because you have access to the bucket and can then take on Lavos. I don't buy it. It's only optional if it effects nothing, otherwise you're just skipping around and not experiencing the whole thing.

[supershiva11]

I like kefka because he isn't a god, he doesn't have an amazing sword, he's just one massively screwed up bastard, and one hell of a bad guy

[Zargabaath]

Originally Posted by V_Translanka

That's like saying all of Chrono Trigger is optional after you get to the End of Time because you have access to the bucket and can then take on Lavos. I don't buy it. It's only optional if it effects nothing, otherwise you're just skipping around and not experiencing the whole thing.

If the game does not make you do it, that is what is called mandatory, then it is optional. If it is up to the player to continue on then it is called optional. Your "optional" is distorted from the actual meaning, thus making your point argument flawed. You don't have to buy it but all you are doing is blinding yourself. The player has the option to get the rest of the characters besides the mandatory ones that are: Sabin, Edgar, and Setzer.

I have never gone to deep into Chrono Trigger but from what you say it is optional for that is what optional is. You can not break the law of identity: A is A, optional is optional, it is a truth.

Another example, most of FFX-2 is optional, they even give you a percent of how much of the story you have done. There are mandatory scenes but a lot of the game is optional.

Also with that logic there are no such things as sidequests cause the offer something. The nature of sidequests is that they are optional to the player, the developer has given the players extra content for them to choose whether or not they pursue it, which is the meaning of optional.

Not that I play the least amount of the game possible, I am exact opposite. I like to get in as much as the game I want before I feel the need to beat it, or have no drive to continue further. I would say it is unwise to play the least amount of a game and judge for there could be content that really makes or breaks the game. Nonetheless that does not change the definition of optional.

[T.G. Oskar]

While you could argue that the gathering of the rest of the characters in FFVI is an optional course, I must agree with V. You could simply go and utter words of pure hatred trying to finish the Tower of Kefka with only 4 characters and severely underleveled, trying to make ends meet by deliberately missing the high-end spells, wondering if you're doing things right.

Or you can play the game as it was meant to be: finding the other people and level up as you go, making a decent group of 12 people to play the Tower as it should.

Sir, that is not optional. That is madness, a deliberate intention on making the game harder than it appears. If you go by your logic, then V has the right idea on the fact you could attempt to finish CT by merely entering the bucket at the End of Time and facing it with whatever group you have it, severely underleveled and unprepared.

I'll tell you what can be considered optional and what-not. Gogo and Umaro are optional; so is Yuffie and Vincent (or will you consider both relevant to the story?). The Tower of Fanatics, finding Tritoch, fighting Hidon, the Underwater Castle; those are optional quests. Finding the other members is part of the story, whether you want to debate it or not.

Here's a more extreme reason of why you should be careful with what's optional. If for some reason you've heard of the game SaGa Frontier, you may know what I mean, but here's for those who might be muddled by this. One of the many scenarios in the game has a character named Lute, who's a normal guy that plays a lute and that lives with his mother, so on and so on. His scenario only has ONE dungeon...the final dungeon. Try going lineal on that scenario, and you'll see the first boss of the game is also the last, and it's a nightmare to face it. You only fight the boss with ONE extra character, and that's it. The rest of the scenario's events are optional, since those are the side-quests shared by the rest of the main characters (of which there are seven in total, including the aforementioned one) Doing these sidequests does not advance the story at all. These sidequests are definitely optional, but they are necessary as you wouldn't be capable of finishing the scenario without them; after all, you do need the grinding and stuff.

Seeking for the rest of the characters actually advances the story. Finding Terra or Locke isn't a mere sidequest; it actually advances the story despite what you believe. Just as it's rare for V and me to believe the individual quests to reclaim old characters can't be optional as it advances the story, so it will be rare to tell FFVII characters that Yuffie and Vincent aren't important to finish the game. Heck, you might be safe with Yuffie; Vincent, on the other part, has his own game. And he IS a secret character, as you need to side-track from the game's linearity to get him.

Truth is, you may argue about Yuffie, but there's too much in Vincent's past to relegate him as an optional character. His story blends too well with the story of the main villain, and you'd miss a lot skipping him. In that sense, Vincent cannot be optional. Thread a bit around, you'll notice that skipping finding the rest of the characters in FFVI is detrimental to the advance of the story, as it's meant to tie loose ends left from the World of Balance.

Another example, this time on breaking linearity and going too far: another SNES game, Ultima VI, has an item called the Moonstone. With a bit of luck, you can pretty much finish the game in 15 minutes with that item, as it takes you directly near the ending part of the game. The game is actually pretty non-linear, since the main story is given in the way of side-quests. You could be pretty confused and shocked on how straying from linearity makes you miss more than half of the game, you could skip every single dungeon in the game and go straight for the end if you know what to do, I kid you not. Was the game intended to be played this way? Nope, it was intended to be played the way it was intended: follow the clues and follow the quests. And this is a game done by a brilliant mind in the realm of American RPGs (Richard Garrick, aka Lord British) It's an excellent game, albeit outdated, but it has an original idea which makes the game feel different and unique, aside from drawing from all of that old lore of fantasy novels. And it's made by breaking from linearity.

I might understand that you like to check every bit and piece, but it's important to understand that your conception of "optional" isn't necessarily wrong, but rather misused. If by doing it you advance the story, it may not be mandatory but it's important to the story, it can't be optional. If it's nothing that will change the story, then it may be considered optional. If you believe that skipping that part will not affect the story in any way, then it may be optional to you but not to the original creators of the story. You could present a very convincing argument that deliberately missing more than three quarters of the original roster will not advance FFVI's story more than simply skipping all of that and jumping into Kefka's Tower, but you're leaving loose ends that will not be properly answered. Which is pretty much the same as skipping several pages of a book dealing with secondary characters and going straight to the end of the book since loose ends can be ignored anyways, or ignoring chapters dealing with secondary characters in a movie or TV series; it's leaving yourself out of the entire experience.

One final example, so you can see how optional can be relative: again, in SaGa Frontier, there's another character called Blue, whose quest is to become the ultimate magician. You actually have to follow what to others is a mere side-quest, since that is actually HIS quest. The actual part that's important to his story comes in his actual final battle: he must face his brother to become the ultimate magician. And then...the credits roll. Sure, credits roll, that's the end of the story. But hey, the game doesn't stop right there!! There's one final dungeon up ahead? How can the game finish if you're still missing one dungeon? Surprise: you're playing the EPILOGUE of his story. People get surprised when they're fighting the final boss and suddenly the game freezes, and a single "The End" appears in the screen. People were asking for a proper ending to his story, but they've failed to realize the actual ending of his story lies in facing his brother and defeating him, just when the credits roll. Remaining to play the game afterwards is entirely optional.

Just so you be more careful when stating "this is optional because this is mandatory". That can be a definite fallacy, more than just a flaw of the game's creators. Perhaps you're not getting the point they wanted to state around. Same in FFVI; the director wanted to make entry into Kefka's Tower available since the World of Ruin appeared, but caused the Airship to be available early on to allow the players to travel the world faster. The fact that you can enter the Tower before reclaiming the rest of the characters wasn't the intention of the game's creators.

[Zargabaath]

As I said before it is unwise to play the minimal of the game, I said in my previous post that I do not do that. However, both of you two clearly don't understand the concept of "optional" and "mandatory".

Optional is something that is left too choice, non-compulsory.
Example: The player has the choice of getting some or all the characters in the WoR.
The game [B]does not force[/B you to do that. The concept of option is the ability to choose. The player has the choice of whether to play FFVI or not, if they do then there are mandatory things the player must do.
Example: Rescue Celes as Locke, it is required that you do it, it is not up to the choice of the player whether he/she wants to.
What V and you are saying is it is unwise not to do the optional stuff, I concur, but both of you are saying since it is unwise, it is mandatory to do the optional stuff. That is an conceptual error in what optional and mandatory is. You are refusing to acknowledge the law of identity making you break away from reality. The law of identity: A is A; what is optional is optional, you can not change that. You are trying to change the defintion of optional to have a clause in it, which it doesn't.
The definition of Optional is: left to choice; not compulsory or automatic
As you clearly can see, getting Locke in the WoR is not automatic in the game programming it is the same as getting Ragnarok in FFVI; Locke may have story to contribute but that does not change the fact that it is up to the player whether to get Locke, not the game making it automatic.

And Vincent is an optional character, one entity that would agree is the actual game walkthrough and in the Final Fantasy wikia site, comprised of Final Fantasy fans you can see right after his name quote "an optional charcter in Final Fantasy VII".

To sum it up, I agree it is unwise not to do those events, however that does not change them from optional to mandatory, they are still optional cause any player can choose to skip them. Optional gives you the power of choice. Mandatory forces you.