Trying to start appreciate FFVI...

[Sasquatch]

"Newer" does not mean "better", by the way. And no, FFVII wasn't supposed to be an enhanced version of VI, it was supposed to be its own, seperate, sovereign game. There's a difference in "this reminds me of that" and "this is an obvious copy of that". Vincent was one of those "obvious copy" things.

Besides, it wasn't just the level of difficulty or the materia system that made FFVII mediocre, it was the lame storyline and the terrible character development. The reason VII is more popular, although that's changing somewhat now, is that FFVII was the first game widely marketed in the U.S. and on a new system with better graphics. They relied too much on that and not enough on gameplay. Not that it didn't work, because there are plenty of fanboys out there that swoon over Tifa and cry over Aeris even without it being a great game, but the older games had to be good to get good reputations.

As for "Does FFVI have something as intensive as that?", your answer is yes. FFVI is intensive. It doesn't have to rely on one or two good battles with incredibly difficult enemies to make the game "intensive".

[King Fenii]

Wow, that was an actual useless post. You still haven't answered things with apropriate examples. For instance: What is intensive about FFVI? Give me an example. Also, if you say newer isn't better, you're insulting Square if you think about it. By making a crappier game, they would destroy themselves. And I want to bet that you haven't cleared FFVII at least twice.

So please, stop using the Materia system as an excuse. It was a good system that was very interesting and inovative. It wasn't lame and didn't make things TOO easy. Yes, some things about it could've been modified, but it can't be updated once it's released. For instance, if you were to equip a strong Summon, they should've dropped the HP even more, to make it more balanced. Cain did something similar to FFVI with his hack, he updated the game to make it more balanced. That's part of the reason why I like the game so much all of a sudden.

Also, FFVII gave you more things to do. You EASILY filled 100 hours with FFVII, while I cleared FFVI in about 25 hours the last time (ALL sidequests included) Do you get my drift? The characters in FFVII did have good plots, so don't try to diss the characters. Maybe they didn't look that snappy and all, but that was also the point of the game, the whole atmosphere was to be set up as regular people who fought for the planet.

The story of FFVII wasn't spectacular, but it was nice. The story of FFVI wasn't that smashing either, if you look at it that way. Also:

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

And no, FFVII wasn't supposed to be an enhanced version of VI, it was supposed to be its own, seperate, sovereign game.

Where do you base that on?! Did Square ever say that? Of course, every FF is a seperate game. But that doesn't mean they don't have elements of the previous ones in them. It were the elements that were enhanced, and they succeeded in my eyes.

Saying this, I await your comment...

[Sasquatch]

What was intensive about FFVI? What, you mean specific situations, or just aspects of the game? Let's see...the entire Kefka's Tower, for one. But, we'll go from the beginning. Terra's escape and rescue by Locke, with moogles' assistance. The poisoning of Doma, and escape/takeover of the Imperial Camp. The Battle for Narshe and the Frozen Esper. The Magitek Factory, Terra's hisory, and the introduction of common magic. Thamasa and Relm's rescue. Thamasa and General Leo's murder. The Floating Continent, especially the end of it. Celes's "Leap of Faith" (if Cid dies). Celes's and Sabin's rescue of the little girl in the collapsing house. Mobliz's story of being fried with the Light of Judgement, and Terra's subsequent finding of love. Setzer, Daryl, and the Falcon. Phunbaba and the Eight Dragons. Locke's quest for Pheonix. Cyan's inner struggle for forgiveness and justice. Maybe Ebot's Rock. Fanatic's Tower. The Underground Castle and Odin's story. And, again, of course, Kefka's Tower, including the Statues and the Final Battle.
... ... ... What'd I forget?

And please don't try to say newer always means better. Unless you like FFX-2 more than FFX, and FFX more than FFIX, and FFIX more than FFVIII, and FFVIII more than FFVII, and so on. Likewise, you would also be admitting that, say, a '92 Mustang is much better than the old Mach 1s, or that every new President is better than the old ones. First of all, "better" is a matter of opinion. Secondly, they didn't have to make the game better at all, they just had to market it better and have better graphics, which they did. If you've noticed, most of the people who started with the older FFs, whether it be I or VI, don't think that FFVII is the best one.

By the way. Yes, I've played through FFVII twice. I got through the second disk another time, and lost interest. Another tip: Don't bet when you don't know what you're talking about.

One of the reasons the materia system was so lame is that everybody was prettymuch the same character without materia. In FFVI, everybody had their own skills -- Blitz, Tools, Runic, Rage, Steal, and so on and so forth. No matter what you took off that character, they still had the same abilities -- well, unless you put the Thief Glove on Locke, or a weapon that can't Runic on Celes, or you sell all of Edgar's tools, something like that. Without Magicite, you still had individual characters. Without Materia, you had a bunch of lame, general attackers.

Filling 100 hours with one playthrough of FFVII is a bit extreme, I believe I finished twice with under 45, going through every sidequest I knew of, which I'm reasonably certain was at least a vast majority. As for FFVI in 25 hours, especially for somebody who hasn't even played it enough to appreciate it, I highly doubt that, but whatever you say. I think I filled 70-something hours with FFVII on one game, but that was when I made at least two of each All Materias, taking trips back and forth to the Big Materias.

The characters? Hah. The character development was virtually nonexistent. FFVI developed and explained each character, apart from the two optionals and maybe Mog, better than any FFVII character was developed. They didn't even include a reason for all of FFVII's characters to join the struggle, did they? And the story? The story pales in comparison to the storylines of previous games.

Did Square ever say that FFVII wasn't simply an enhanced version of FFVI? You serious? It's common logic that each game doesn't copy things straight from past games. Elements, yes, even battle systems and such, but characters? There are sequels of games, yes, but FFVII isn't a sequel to anything, it's a seperate game.

[King Fenii]

You should read more accurately; I never said FFVII was a sequel. Also, you say the cast of FFVII are lame attackers once they have no Materia, that is because they are normal people. Also they still have their Limit Breaks that make them more interesting.

Your comment stating newer isn't always better was odd. Maybe you misunderstood: I'm talking about elements in the game that are better. Let me bring it to you more simply:

FFVI: Lack of good moves at command when low on HP
FFVII: Improved that with Limits
FFVIII: Introduced the handy and new Magic system (Fire, Fira, Firaga)
FFIX: Very detailed (Items etc.)
FFX: Sphere Grid: New possibilities for EACH characters
FFX-2: Ability and Battle System excellent

You see, every FF has its own thing that was better than the one before it. Maybe not the whole game, but all you do, is say FFVII sucks because of lousy reasons. And for the record: don't doubt my 25 hours. Do remember, I cleared ALL FF's. I ALL liked them. I cleared some MULTIPLE times, meaning a pattern will emerge, making it more easy to clear others.

And once again, you manage to fail at the question: What is as intense in FFVI as the fight with Ruby Weapon, facing him alone with Cloud using only melee attacks?

All YOU did was sum up the events that happened throughout FFVI. That was not intense. Intense means breaking a sweat. Of course there ARE annoying battles, but every FF has that. Give me a good example of the intensity as posted above.

Also, you said you cleared it twice, but lost interest in the game on CD2. If you REALLY know what you're talking about, then tell me: Who is Cloud Strife?
Tell me EVERYTHING you know about him.

[Sasquatch]

I'm not gonna say everything I know about Cloud, because that request is just as stupid as if I were to ask for everything you know about, say, Terra. Or any other character, from any game. It's pointless, and unless I claim to be some "extraordinair" schmuck, I can be perfectly happy with the realization that my life does not revolve around video games to the point that I know everything there is to know about any character.

That having been said, no, you never said FFVII was a sequel, but you did say that...well, lemme find it. "My theory about this is that FFVII was to be an enhanced version of FFVI qua gameplay."

The cast of FFVI was prettymuch nomal people too, by the way, but each is individualized enough to have their own abilities, instead of having the exact same commands as everybody else when they're unequipped.

Newer, again, does not necessarily mean better. It means different. Some different things are better, and some different things are worse. The obvious "betters" would be things like graphics, which naturally evolve with the technology, and other ideas which have done well in the past. But there are some things which are worse, to most people. Things like a lame storyline, underdeveloped characters, etc. Things FFVII had against it.

And let's see. FFVI did have specialized random high-powered attacks at critical HP levels. FFVII's Limit Breaks weren't affected by HP levels. The "handy and new magic system" dealing with names of spells doesn't make a damn bit of difference, as Firaga and Fire3 are the same thing. And FFIX wasn't really any more detailed with items and such than any other FF was. Your point on FFX is valid. And FFX-2's battle system (really, the entire game) is considered by many to be another step back.

You think my reasons for not liking FFVII are "lousy", as I believe are your reasons for liking FFVII, especially with a disregard for older games. You may not, but many people do value character development and a plot when they rate a game. By the way, again, don't judge something you don't know much about -- I do like FFVII, I just don't think it was as good as FFVI, and I get tired of fanboys that swoon over it because it was the first one Mommy and Daddy bought for you.

You can claim to have completed FFVI in 25 hours all you want, but I've gone through it six or eight times, at the least, and rarely gotten below 25 hours. And don't try the "I'm just that experienced" crap, because nobody with half a brain or any experience in any RPG takes 100 hours to do anything in FFVII.

And I'm sorry. Breaking a sweat in any battle in most RPGs, including (and especially) FFVII, is simply pathetic. If that's a vigorous exercise for you, you really need to get out of the house more. I listed some of the more "intense" moments in FFVI, comparing them to your battle with Ruby Weapon. If you get exhausted fighting a lame optional boss in a mediocre RPG, I guess there's not really much I (or hell, anybody) can do for you.

[LocoColt04]

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

You can claim to have completed FFVI in 25 hours all you want, but I've gone through it six or eight times, at the least, and rarely gotten below 25 hours. And don't try the "I'm just that experienced" crap, because nobody with half a brain or any experience in any RPG takes 100 hours to do anything in FFVII.

Well, I've cleared it something like 32 or 34 times, and I did it in slightly under 20 hours once. Only once though. So, what's the point of my post then? This:

You guys need to calm down. This isn't supposed to be some FFVII v. FFVI debate. If you want that, start a thread for it in General Final Fantasy or something. You've already turned your debate into a petty argument, and it won't be long before the flaming comes around. Why don't you two just agree to disagree for now, and leave it at that? Neither of you seems to give a shit about the other's opinion, and you'll never get anywhere that way. Let's just get the topic back on track or something.

[King Fenii]

Good idea, Sasquatsh can't debate normally without insulting anyone. Listen 'Mr. Sasquatsh', you don't know me, so don't judge me. We are discussing something maturely, so don't talk shit okay? I'm referring to: "You need to get out of the house more" and "That's the first one Mommy and Daddy bought for them"

My life doesn't revolve around video games. It is merely a hobby of mine. So are the challenges I put for myself. Final Fantasy is just incredible to do that with. I've never had a Final Fantasy until just recently. My brother owned them and I had to borrow them. Lots of blackmailing happened because of this So just recently I decided to buy the FF's, by MYSELF. So don't say random crap okay? I'm not like anyone in here.

And you say FFVII is mediocre, but then say you liked it, but not as much as FFVI. My advice: Clear it again. I did that as well. I appreciate FFVI much more now and DO know what I'm talking about and realise what's going on.

Anyway, I can't wait for FFVI to be released on the GBA. I'm wondering what improvements it will have and what kind of extra's this one will contain. As I said earlier, the PSX version was pretty sleep-inducing, and thus not much fun. Hopefully FFVI on the GBA will be the best version of it ever released.

[Sasquatch]

Actually, I said that I get tired of fanboys that swoon over FFVII because it was the first one their parents bought for them. This is the case with all too many FF fans, they started out on PSX and FFVII and are ignorant of the older, better FFs, at least for long enough to base more and more on graphics and reject everything pre-32 bit. I maintain that breaking a sweat playing FFVII is quite pathetic. And I don't know why I'm supposed to care when you got your games, but congratulations, I suppose, if that's what you're looking for. Oh yeah, and if I've already given something multiple chances, and it's proven to be mediocre, I'm not going to spend forty or fifty hours to give it another chance.

That having been said, I've heard a lot of good things about the new FFIV, and I recently bought that (though ain't played it yet, my GBA's still in the dorm), so I'm hoping the new FFVI will have as many additions as it does.

In the new FFIV, I guess, you can use any past characters in your final party, from Palom and Porom to Yang or FuSoYa. I'm hoping for Golbez, myself. But on the same note, I wonder if the re-release of FFVI will include, maybe, a way to revive Leo?

[Lethal Seraphim]

Ugh... I could say so much but it's not my place. Im'a stay on topic here and say that I'm just now playing through FFVI for the first time. I don't know what version I'm using or anything like that but I am using an emulator. If I had the cartridge for the SNES I'd play that but I don't so oh well. Truth be told if it's not the original I don't really care. FFVI is FFVI is FFVI in my mind and I'm playing it for the story not for the specific details of the gameplay.

I've heard people say ever since I got into FF communities that VI was the superior game and that it was classic and completely worth my time. So yeah I'm trying to appreciate it as well I guess you could say. I am finding it quite enjoyable. I just got a hold of the airship, you know after you do the opera house thing. I've been playing for a little over 9 hours.

Thus far I can see why it receives the praise it does. It's just freakin' good! I'm missing out on the PSX cinematics and all that but hopefully I'll get ahold of those discs and get to play it on there as well.

But yeah, I think this one might take the cake for me. I'm liking the plot and even on a computer I find it enjoyable to play.

On a personal note though, and this is strictly my biased opinion which means nothing, I dunno why Palazzo had to get on Inferno Mage about which version he was playing. Just let the man have his fun I say. That's what it's about, is it not?