Sequel to FFT

[Drake Teglen]

I would like to see a sequel to FFT, and I don't mean FFTA. I'd like a continuation of the story from FFT perhaps several years in the future. Don't get me wrong, FFTA is a good game, but the story doesn't stack up against the excellence of FFT.

So how about your ideas for a sequel? It would be on PS2 of course, because there's no need for next gen graphics, and because I don't feel like paying 500-600 bucks for a new system. I would like to see Holy and Dark knight as playable characters, but perhaps difficult to unlock or at least have requirements like the ninja/samurai of FFT.

Also, I would like to use more party members, perhaps up to 10 at once including guests.

[LocoColt04]

Originally Posted by Drake Teglen

I would like to see a sequel to FFT, and I don't mean FFTA. I'd like a continuation of the story from FFT perhaps several years in the future. Don't get me wrong, FFTA is a good game, but the story doesn't stack up against the excellence of FFT.

Well, first and foremost, FFT:A was never intended to be a sequel. It was meant to be a spinoff, and as such, was a very good title. A lot of people seem to think it was supposed to be a sequel, but the stories have nothing to do with each other. I'm not suggesting that you're one of the people who thought it was a sequel, but am merely clarifying for any who do.

Originally Posted by Drake Teglen

So how about your ideas for a sequel? It would be on PS2 of course, because there's no need for next gen graphics, and because I don't feel like paying 500-600 bucks for a new system. I would like to see Holy and Dark knight as playable characters, but perhaps difficult to unlock or at least have requirements like the ninja/samurai of FFT.

I'll address this at the end of the post.

Originally Posted by Drake Teglen

Also, I would like to use more party members, perhaps up to 10 at once including guests.

Ten seems like a little much. Eight might be a better choice. Even with eight, many of the maps would have to be much larger, because they would be far too crowded otherwise. Larger maps makes for better strategy, which in turn makes for a better strategy RPG all around. I like the idea.

Ideas for a sequel, huh? Well... what about Delita? Or, better than a sequel, what if we had a prequel? What if we could play through the events leading up to the 50 Year War? I think that could be far more interesting than attempting to flush an actual sequel out of the title. We vaguely know what led up to the events in the game... so why not flush those out and expand upon them? Holy crap, that would be awesome...

[awall]

Funny you should mention this...

So this idea started off when I was looking into gameshark codes for FFT. I realized that many of the imbalances in FFT's gameplay could be set right with a few minor tweaks to numbers. Then I dropped the gameshark restriction, and asked myself what I would do if I were given free rein to mess with the game mechanics as I saw fit. Finally, I just decided to heck with fixing up FFT, I'd just write my own tactics-ish story.

The story that I'm working with right now is set in Ivalice about 40 years after the Durai Report is released (which, while it's not explicitly stated, I get the feeling is about 10-20 years after FFT). Because it's so far in the future, most of the characters we know are gone, and the "sequelness" is more recognizable in terms of the world than the actual story. I want to do it this way because this gives me the most freedom to have my own characters, instead of trying to fit my story to the personalities of existing ones. The story itself centers around the Glabados Church launching a "crusade" to eliminate from Ivalice any traces of Lucavi, corruption, darkness, and just about anything that's not in line with its teachings... but I'd rather not go into it in too much detail, as it's just in very rough outline form right now, not even fully written down on my computer.

Gameplay, I'm a bit more open to discuss. Because I'm interested in keeping the game system as close to FFT's as possible, I'm only changing things that I feel would be good for balance and/or could be added without significantly changing the way the system works. Here are the first 5 suggestions that come to mind.

1) Seriously tone down special classes. If special classes are going to be overpowered in one respect, that's fine; however, there should be an equally big drawback to them. Holy Knights can keep their uber-sword skills, but I'd attach an MP cost to the skills, such that the skills could only be used once or twice per battle, forcing the Knight to use other skills once in a while. Dark Knights get similar treatment (they also could use a few more abilities to flush out their moveset... maybe "Black Sword: Drains target's PA by 1-3" or similar abilities).

2) Some classes can't really be fixed without drastic changes. Calculators and Samurai are the biggest offenders, but I was never too fond of Dancers, because they lend themselves to the "hide in a corner until the entire enemy team is frogged" strategy. I'd advocate pulling those classes out and replacing them with some classes that the game really should have had: Red Mage, Blue Mage, and perhaps a few other interesting things like FF5-esque Magic Knights.

3) Attacks with variable success rates (most notably status magic and the Knight's Battle Skills) should have fixed (high) success rates, but variable effects. Rather than fixing the duration of status spells but making the success rate depend on MA and Faith, spells should (almost) always succeed, but the duration should depend on MA and Faith. A good mage can poison you for 48 clockticks, but a cruddy one might only get you for 30 or so. Battle Skill should be similar; a Knight with bad PA might only Power Break for -2 PA, but a high-level Knight with high PA and a good weapon might hit for as much as -6 PA or so.

4) Enemies should be more interesting. FFT had 20 standard classes, but over 50% of the enemies in the game were either Knights or Archers, two of the most boring classes to fight against. It may be a good idea to cut back on the number of enemy healers to keep battles from lasting forever, but other classes - Monks, Ninjas, Oracles, Geomancers... they should all show up far more often. Furthermore, enemies almost never had interesting equipment - even special characters rarely had more than one better-than-average item. Enemies should have equipment that makes you think about how to take them out (and makes being able to break the enemy's accessory a real lifesaver). There should also be some mechanism in place to keep your thief from robbing enemy parties blind and having amazing equipment after the first battle in which you meet an enemy who has it.

5) Certain aspects of FFT's system got very little use; these include dispelling enemy units' statuses (enemies rarely hasted themselves), working with knockback and fall damage, defending against obscure techniques like Word Skill, and movement across funky terrain like swampland and lava. Filling out these features a bit more would be interesting.

So this is the kind of stuff I'd like to see in an FFT sequel. Obviously I can't actually make one, but I'm into design and stuff enough to work on one anyway in my own time (think of it like writing fanfic, but for a gamer). If anybody wants to talk about gameplay improvements some more, I'm always down for that.

Oh, and Loco... I like your idea about upping the party size to 8 and expanding maps to allow for more work with formations and tactical movement around the battlefield. You wouldn't want to make it too big (once you do, it stops being FFT and starts being Warcraft :-p) but 8's probably a good number - we've see it work in Tactics Ogre.

[Masamune master]

First thing, loco i like your idea about going back a little and play up to the events leading to the Fifty Year War, that would be awesome!

Awall, you will have to let us all know when your finished with your story.

[Drake Teglen]

Good stuff guys. I would also like to see the exp and JP system tweaked a bit. I don't think you should be able to sit in a corner and keep hitting and healing your own party to gain levels and JP. I think only attacking enemies should give exp and JP and healing or giving status improvements to allies. This would keep people from having ninja and samurai in chapter 1.

Also, I kind of liked the system in FFTA where certain characters were limited in which jobs they could become. While I don't think there should be different races in a sequel or prequel, perhaps characters should start as a certain class and only have certain options to branch out to and not a choice from every single class.

Finally, I would like to see characters that fit into the story instead of just random named party members. And perhaps the story could change according to which characters you took into a given battle. Yep that'd be interesting.

[Angel_wings]

I like tactics how it was,but I do think mabey about 7 ot 8 characters is better.Also there should be a bigger storyline,Tactics was kind of more focused on the battle.

[LocoColt04]

... *jaw drops*

What are you talking about? FFT has one of the most in-depth stories of any game in the Final Fantasy series... let alone any game ever made! It's deep, profound, and there are layers upon layers of truths and fabrications.

If there's one thing that can never be done for a strategy RPG, it will be to make a title with a better story than that of FFT. It just won't happen... the idea of a FFT prequel could further expand upon the existing story, but even then could never compare.

[baofu]

Story:
Multiple endings. The story can end in various ways and in the end thou asks thou self is this right? Is this the path I have chosen? There is no right and wrong just numerous ways to end the story. Like in FFT there should be an ending were Ramza becomes king or he accepts one of the stones and becomes a demon. In FFT II there should be chances where thou can chose to rescue or abandon. Kill and plunder or save and protect.

Classes:
I think it is all nice how characters have to be first squire or chemist then advance to w. mage, b. mage, knight or archer. Now this is drastic but what I like to change is that there are certain schools or training grounds or clans that characters have to join in order to advance to a certain class(job). I like to change chemist to alchemist and add the ability to create potion on by his self. Of course thou has to have the needed materials. Like medical herbs,… Anyway in order to advance to a new class a character has to pay a certain amount of gold or undergo a certain test or have the needed requirements or perhaps all of this together. So thou can not change classes so easily.

Party size:
If anyone here has ever played Shining Force II he knows that if there are more than 8 members will not turn the game into Warcraft. In that particular game I don’t remember so good but I think there was about 9 to 12 members. This game was played on Sega. It is a very old and still one of the best games I ever played.

[awall]

Originally Posted by baofu

Story:
Multiple endings. The story can end in various ways and in the end thou asks thou self is this right? Is this the path I have chosen? There is no right and wrong just numerous ways to end the story. Like in FFT there should be an ending were Ramza becomes king or he accepts one of the stones and becomes a demon. In FFT II there should be chances where thou can chose to rescue or abandon. Kill and plunder or save and protect.

While multiple endings would be cool, the problem with multiple endings (or multiple storylines in general) is that the amount of work required goes up exponentially with the number of branching plotlines. A normal 40-hour game provides 40 hours of gameplay. If it forks 20 hours in, it requires as much work as a 60-hour game, yet still only provides 40 hours of gameplay. If it forks more than once... well, ouch.

Multiple endings is still feasible, because endings require very little work relative to the game itself (it's mostly just a lot of cutscene rendering). However, it's tricky to write the plot in such a way that the ending can vary without the plot changing at all. If they could pull it off, it'd be cool, but I'm not sure it'd be worth the amount of additional work it would entail.

Originally Posted by baofu

Classes:
I think it is all nice how characters have to be first squire or chemist then advance to w. mage, b. mage, knight or archer. Now this is drastic but what I like to change is that there are certain schools or training grounds or clans that characters have to join in order to advance to a certain class(job). I like to change chemist to alchemist and add the ability to create potion on by his self. Of course thou has to have the needed materials. Like medical herbs,… Anyway in order to advance to a new class a character has to pay a certain amount of gold or undergo a certain test or have the needed requirements or perhaps all of this together. So thou can not change classes so easily.

That's an interesting class-change system. It sorta reminds me of FF5's in that you need to get to a certain point in the game to advance (no ninjas in Chapter 1... sorry), but it's a neat variation. I think you could do a lot with this, such as send the player off on sidequests to achieve materials for making certain class changes. It'd also allow the player to use some really powerful classes if he really wanted to, but require a lot of work to get them. Maybe instead of having character-specific special classes, anybody could become a holy knight (or something else) if they found the right materials, but they were rare enough that you wouldn't want to do this with more than one character or so.

Originally Posted by baofu

Party size:
If anyone here has ever played Shining Force II he knows that if there are more than 8 members will not turn the game into Warcraft. In that particular game I don’t remember so good but I think there was about 9 to 12 members. This game was played on Sega. It is a very old and still one of the best games I ever played.

Yeah, I was exaggerating a bit. Bahamut Lagoon gave you like 20 characters, and it was still more tactics-ish than Warcraft-ish. I was just trying to emphasize that the crux of the game should still be micromanagement (individual units) rather than macromanagement (whole armies).

[Sir Kenneth]

A sequel to Final Fantasy Tactics would be absolutely fantastic. Final Fantasy Tactics was too good a game not to make a series out of it. And it definitely deserves more than just a spin-off for GB.

I thought about removing the chemist class altogether actually. I think that it would allow a bit more tactical freedom (especially in the beginning of the game) if all characters were a bit more self-reliant that way.

[awall]

Originally Posted by Sir Kenneth

I thought about removing the chemist class altogether actually. I think that it would allow a bit more tactical freedom (especially in the beginning of the game) if all characters were a bit more self-reliant that way.

As in all characters can use items, or nobody can?

I actually really like the chemist class. It provides an alternative type of healer, which actually allows a lot more freedom in party design. Compare to FF5, in which every party was virtually REQUIRED to have a White Mage because there were no other really good healing classes. Sure, Priests are better at some things (area of effect cure spells, protect/shell, restore more HP when revivng KO'ed units, able to cast Holy) but Chemists have their own set of strenghts (don't requre MP to heal, can restore other people's MP, can equip guns, and - most importantly - don't have to risk missing when they revive somebody. In fact, Chemists are among the most surefire classes in the game; guns and items both have 100% accuracy and, barring critical hits and zodiac whatsits, always hit/heal for a fixed amount (spellguns excluded).

Chemists are also interesting because they're practically entirely equipment-based. About the only stats that matter for your chemist are HP, Brave (only if you have a reaction ability), and Faith (only if you have a spellgun). This means that anybody can become a good chemist without needing to have leveled up in a certain branch of the job tree.

That said, this isn't really a debate the effectiveness of chemists thread... I'm merely trying to make a case for them adding something positive and unique to the game and having a place in some sort of sequel/remake.

EDIT: Maybe I just didn't understand how removing the chemist class would allow for more character development freedom... can you elaborate on that?

[LocoColt04]

Originally Posted by awall

EDIT: Maybe I just didn't understand how removing the chemist class would allow for more character development freedom... can you elaborate on that?

Yeah, I'd like some elaboration on that one as well.

In the case of a FFT sequel or prequel, I'd actually like to see MORE done with the Chemist class. I wouldn't change the existing one, but I'd like to see an Alchemist class as well. Say, by levelling Chemist to 6, you could unlock Alchemist, which would work very much like Rikku's Alchemy overdrive in FFX.

That would be priceless to have in a Tactics game. You could learn all kinds of different combinations, and it could be really freaking awesome -- but you couldn't just replace the Chemist with the Alchemist. Alchemy would be too a