Hardest Plot Battle in the Game

[awall]

Just what the title says. What do you think is the hardest plot battle in the game? ("Plot Battle" means a battle that is required to complete the game. The Beowulf/Reis/Cloud sidequests don't count, nor does Deep Dungeon, nor does the 11 Monk battle or any of its brethen.)

I'm going to cast my vote for the Wiegraf/Velius fight in chapter 3. While assassination missions are usually easier than defeat-all-enemies missions, the difficulty of the target coupled with the fact that Ramza has to do the first half of the battle solo makes it a nightmare. Velius is hard on his own (Cyclops is guaranteed death to whoever it hits, Seal is 100% accurate Petrify, and even his basic attack is pretty scary), but adding three Archaeodemons to the mix just makes it that much worse. Dark Holy is simply unfair; it does as much damage as Cyclops. It may not have area of effect, but Giga Flare takes care of that (an instant speed attack should not have that kind of blast radius). And then Lifebreak... it punishes you for attacking the demons, and also has the annoying property of cancelling Charm status even if it doesn't cause damage! So much for my great plan to get a Thief in there to charm a demon. On top of that, you can't leave the dungeon unless you keep a seperate save file outside.

EDIT: Thought I'd point out, if you post here please explain why you thought the battle you voted for was so difficult.

[LocoColt04]

No way man... Wiegraf/Velius was a pansy.

I spent fifteen minutes in the first half running away from Wiegraf (my move was 6, so it helped) as a Lancer/Squire. Guts was the saving grace in that battle. Between the speed boosts and the strength boosts, my Ramza was getting three turns for every single turn that Wiegraf got. Yep. I boosted my speed all the way up to 25.

When I stopped the stat boosting, I charged at Wiegraf and essentially slaughtered him in three hits. He did his little Velius trick, and the rest of my party arrived. Only Mustadio was able to take a single turn -- three jumps from Ramza ended the battle incredibly quickly.

Sure, perhaps it's a cheap way to win that battle, but it's not cheating.



That said, I think the most difficult for me was the Gafgarion fight. I, once again, ran away. I can't recall what Ramza's classes were, but I know he had Ignore Height. I sent him over the wall to leave Gafgarion for later. I wiped out the rest of his squad with mine, and then used all of my other characters against the wall as mages to cure Ramza and attack Gafgarion to the best of their ability.

Don't get me wrong, though. I made it sound easy, but I had to do that battle four times before I finally managed to beat it, even though I employed the same strategy each time. I would always lose by just the slightest bit, so I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong. I just wasn't necessarily doing things right, either. It took the proper combination of moves and spells to get things turned in my favor.

[Leviathan]

i remember dorter trade city being solid when i first started FFT for the first time, all the way back in 1998.

But eventually i raped them all, playing the game now the Gafgarion fight is probably one of the toughest.

Last time i did it, it took me two or three attempts, but unlike Loco's strategy i went and fucked up Gafgarion straight away, two knights with two swords abilities and ramza with two swords abilities, he didn't last long. The hardest part was trying to stop the mages at the top, i had Agrias and Mustadio under the bridge section and they kept getting 'stop' cast on them, then others came and raped them whilst they could do nothing.

[awall]

I have a feeling that the chapter 2 battles are going to get a rep for being the hardest. By the time you get to chapter 3, a lot of people have Agrias at full power, backed up by a fairly beefed up Ninja or something, while the Balk battle gets trivialized because you have Orlandu by that point. I seem to be the only person around here who doesn't use him, and let me say: If you're sticking with generics (with reasonable equipment... no Javelin+, Escutcheon+, or Chantage), the Balk fight is HARD!!! Two of the enemies have 8-panel attack ranges; three of the others fly and can kill you in 1-2 turns; and the Dark Behemoth has over 600 HP.

That said, while Balk may outclass you more than Velius does, I still think Velius is harder. Balk's dragon trio will only kill you if at least two hits of their "Triple ___" attacks land in your panel, while Velius and his goons can take out most of your characters in one turn with Cyclops or Dark Holy. Sure, you can cheap him out by Yelling a lot in the first part of the battle (which even I've been forced to do upon occasion... actually, I only used Yell a few times, but I used Speed Save too which made up for it), but any fight can be trivialized with the right abilities. The trick is beating the battle while giving the enemies a fighting chance.

Not to say that Golgorand isn't hard or anything... I typically die several times there. To win, you really have to disarm Gafgarion, and do so on your first try; missing is fatal, because you take too much damage on the first round to have time for another break/steal attempt. Arm Aim and Weapon Break are your friend, though if you can manage to filch his sword, it's t3h sweet. Slap it on Ramza to make the subsequent Lionel Castle Gate battle (as well as the Wiegraf/Velius battle) much easier, as Ramza can now heal himself while causing damage.

Speaking of Lionel Castle Gate... I forgot to list that as one of the choices. I've never had particular trouble with it, but I admit that it takes a great deal of preparation, phoenix downs, and often luck. I'm rather proud of myself for coming up with three completely different (proven successful) strategies for winning the battle without opening the gate. Cesar, were you referring to the Golgorand Battle in your post, or this one? If you'd like to add this as a choice to the poll, I agree that this deserves to be a candidate. I know some n00b is going to come along and say, "no that battle is so easy i winned it on my first try. u just have 2 give all your guys rubber shoes, all the enemies use lightning weapons." Just remember what I said above - the trick is to win these battles without being incredibly cheap, and remember that this battle is really hard if you play fair.

I've also heard people say that Zaland Fort City (i.e. the Save Mustadio battle) and Yardow Fort City (i.e. the Save Rafa battle... the first one, where you have to fight Malak and all those ninjas and summoners) are both really difficult. To me, sure they may be a bit on the hard side, but they just don't compare at all to Dorter/Golgorand/Riovanes/Murond.

[cloud711]

For me, the Wiegraf/Velius fight was the hardest. I'm the kind of person that likes to just play through the game without leveling up a lot on the side or anything like that, so by them time I got to the Wiegraf battle for the first time, I just got slaughtered. Couldn't even make it to the Velius part of the fight. So then I had to leave, go level up a ton and get Ramza crazy strong, and then I went back and just destroyed him.

[LocoColt04]

Originally Posted by awall

the Balk battle gets trivialized because you have Orlandu by that point. I seem to be the only person around here who doesn't use him, and let me say: If you're sticking with generics (with reasonable equipment... no Javelin+, Escutcheon+, or Chantage), the Balk fight is HARD!!! Two of the enemies have 8-panel attack ranges; three of the others fly and can kill you in 1-2 turns; and the Dark Behemoth has over 600 HP.

Dude, the Balk battle was EASY for me, and the only non-standard character I used was Mustadio. I'm too in love with my hired characters to really use the story characters. There's a trick to it -- get Balk bottled up on the bridge and charge him with everything you've got. I wiped him out in three turns. Each of my characters got two hits on him, save Ramza, who got three. And I don't think I did anything cheap that I can recall.

Originally Posted by awall

Cesar, were you referring to the Golgorand Battle in your post, or this one?

Oh no, I was definitely referring to Golgorand. I think I'd remember if it wasn't Gafgarion who raped me repeatedly. ^_^;;

I can, however, add as many poll options as necessary, up to ten, anyway.

Just list a couple more definite additions (and the chapters they're in; it's been a while since I've played), and I'll add them up. Other members are welcome to suggest things as well, as long as they can truly classify as hard plot battles.

[awall]

Originally Posted by LocoColt04

Dude, the Balk battle was EASY for me, and the only non-standard character I used was Mustadio. I'm too in love with my hired characters to really use the story characters. There's a trick to it -- get Balk bottled up on the bridge and charge him with everything you've got. I wiped him out in three turns. Each of my characters got two hits on him, save Ramza, who got three. And I don't think I did anything cheap that I can recall.

My applause then. I've only hit that battle with two non-Orlandu parties, and I got seriously owned both times. One of my parties never made it past there, although I attribute that partially to a bad party design (it involved my infamous attempts at a Priest/Lancer and a Ninja/Summoner) and partially to Rofel smashing a bunch of my good equipment two battles before and me not having spares.

I'd be interested in figuring out a good strategy for generics on this battle (Mustadio is generic enough for these purposes). When I play, Balk tends to hide away in the corner where he starts, while the chemist runs around handing out Elixers. The time I won with the party that got past him was a combination of luck (the chemist didn't know Elixer, for once), more luck (Balk finally decided to come over to my side of the stage, and as soon as he did Ramza stole his gun), even more luck (the hydras kept missing with their Triple ____ attacks), and yet more luck (my ninja repeatedly inflicted Don'tAct when he attacked). I won that battle by luring the hydras over to my side of the ravine one at a time, and then having my thief and my ninja dispatch them while my Knight/Wizard clogged up the bridge and kept the behemoth busy (I think she eventually managed to turn it into a frog) and the other two threw X-Potions and Cure3's around like there was no tomorrow.

Originally Posted by LocoColt04

Oh no, I was definitely referring to Golgorand. I think I'd remember if it wasn't Gafgarion who raped me repeatedly. ^_^;;

Well, the Lionel Castle gate battle is also Gafgarion. You have to fight the bastard twice in a row, and both battles have a reputation for being quite nasty. However, if you're sure it was Golgorand then that's what it was.

Originally Posted by LocoColt04

I can, however, add as many poll options as necessary, up to ten, anyway.

Just list a couple more definite additions (and the chapters they're in; it's been a while since I've played), and I'll add them up. Other members are welcome to suggest things as well, as long as they can truly classify as hard plot battles.

Well, I always found the Igros Castle battle to be incredibly difficult if you don't have any magic knights; without Agrias, Meliadoul, or Orlandu, you lose the easy way of taking out Dycedarg and thus have to take the long walk under the bridge and up the stairs to get to him, all the while eating Lightning Stab and Bio3. However, this battle pales in comparison to having to fight Balk, so... whatever. Why don't we wait until somebody other than me suggests a battle that they thought was difficult? I don't wanna skew the polls by suggesting all the battles myself.

[T.G. Oskar]

Whoa...since how long did I played this for the first time? My opinion is, Riovanes. Especifically the duel battle. Wiegraf has long range attacks, good chance of dealing status effects, wonderful ATM weapons and armor, a good evasion chance, and often has Maintenance so his equip. can't be broken or stolen. You, on the other hand, have the usual classes, which are still good but not that showy. The Squire class? You'll have to depend on Yell + Accumulate to achieve a good result. Mostly, people like to move far away from Lightning Stab and Holy Sword skills, while boosting, before moving to attack (preferably on the back). Monk, Samurai and Ninja are ever popular choices. Now, I wonder...what with a magician Ramza?... The battle becomes relatively easier once the second half reaches, as your allies face the overrated Archaic Demons. Velius is more of a challenge, and even then it pales in comparison to solo Wiegraf.

The rest of the battles are also quite difficult, too. So, in order, I determine Gaff as the 2nd hardest, followed by Balk's 2nd fight and then Dorter. Golgorand has this annoying concept of owning your hard-trained party with Archers at good heights, while Gaff rapes you down. But I say the most annoying enemy in there was the Time Mage. Nothing can be more annoying than having you Slowed, Stopped, and your enemy Hasted, all in the convenience of greater height. As for Balk, not even Orlandu can survive the might of the Hyudra-kind. Tried and true. And having two good guns available makes the battle oftentimes more difficult because the guns are tempting to be stolen, while the battlefield impedes movement.

I dunno...for some reason, the battle in Riovanes was easy as heck; I went for the popular Squire/Ninja skills/Knight Swords choice and threw on Hamedo for kicks.

Had a move rate of 11 first turn, yelled till my speed was up, then walked up to Wiegraf with 2 swords/hamedo and womped him twice before he could attack once. It was like chess with Kasparov to get him to a corner so he couldn't move out of his own Lightning Stab AOE.

After that I brought in Agrias, a White Mage, Mustadio, another monk with Hamedo, and a couple knights with two swords. Dispatched the Archdemons in four turns with one successful Lightning Stab and three knight attacks on the remaining one, then took Velius on straight up.

then again, my avg. level for all characters was something like 53. I take a LOT of time to level up early on.

Why then was the battle on Riovanes roof (where you have to protect that bitch Rafa) so friggin hard?! I'd usually get within two steps with Ramza (11 move), almost enough to wipe out Celia or Lede, but one of em would Stop me and the other would level Rafa.

Damn weak ...heaven thing.

[awall]

Originally Posted by Dante Myserium

then again, my avg. level for all characters was something like 53. I take a LOT of time to level up early on.

That seems to be a fairly common approach... sit around and level the bajeezus out of your characters in chapter one and then coast through the rest of the game. I've heard that when you do this then the random battles (in which enemies match your level) are much harder than plot battles, which seems somehow wrong to me.