find it wierd that a dark night becomes a paladin?

[metal572]

i find it weird becuase dark nights and paladins are like complete oposites and yes i know that cecil wasnt evil but if he was evil enough to be a dark night how could hechange to the complete opposite the paladin wich is the symbol of good. mayb some1 can explain it to me but i just found it weird and thought id mention it. PS yes i know cecil was regreting being a dark night but it just doesnt seem that some1 could change that much.

[Dawezy]

In order to advance the story with the stereotypical "Good triumphing over Evil" scenario ~ Cecil had to prove himself by putting the Darkness behind him and embracing "the Light" as passed down by his father. Not *that* much of a spoiler there but yeah, on a personal level I found it kind of sad that he pretty much had no choice in the issue and was forced to convert from "Evil" to "Good".

Would've made for an interesting (alternate) story if he kept his Dark Knightly-ness to triumph over upper evils.

[TomStrife]

Yes, Dawezy pretty much covered it.

That would be an interesting alternate story, to say the least.

He did have a choice though, it's just that pretty much everyone would be doomed if he didn't.

[CLOUD]

I had seen it coming.As Dawezy said,there couldn't be a story with an evil-till-the-end main character,not in a Final Fantasy game.We didn't geat a clear explenation on the life of Cecil from the beginning,so it was a bit weird.But,since his father was a Lunarian,he faced the trial against himself,since his brother was evil,he couldn't be the same.

I'm glad he turned into a paladin.I found the Dark Knight was terribly weak;his attack mediocre,his dak attack draining way too much HP for the damage dealt,the change was for the best.I'm not saying that having a dark knight all the way till the end would be bad-i liked his looks actually-but a paladin was much more suitable.They should have given an option for you to choose what you want him to be,make weapons & skills for both classes etc.

[LocoColt04]

Plus, you've got to realize that Dark Knights aren't necessarily "evil" either -- they're knights who have embraced the teachings of the dark magicks.

Dark Knights, as a job class, are good guys too... they're just not all holy and such.

[TomStrife]

Lococolt04 has a point there.

Black Mages in FFI and many other FF games weren't evil, yet they use the dark art of black magic.

[Dragoon_Nick]

Its so cliche that evil always converts into good. For example Cloud who doesn't care about anything, nor does he have any feelings for anyone ends up caring for the whole world in the end. Squall whos doesn't want to be bothered ends up always being with everyone. Of course, Cecil becomes a paladin.

You think they don't overuse that cliche...? HEH! Its the primary story ending for most FFs...

[DragonHeart]

If you look at it simply based on the job classes, then no it doesn't make sense. However, from the perspective of Cecil as a character, it's not strange at all. As soon as he began to doubt the methods and motivations of what Baron was doing, he lost that ruthless edge that enables the dark knight class to function. Dark knights aren't inherently evil, but they do use power based on the suffering and sacrifice of others. Cecil could no longer do that, so he probably would have lost his dark knight abilities no matter what path he chose.

To be honest, that's actually my theory for why he's not nearly as strong as you'd expect someone like him to be. By time we catch up with him he's already lost the will to be a dark knight, so he'd already given up the majority of his power, likely on a subconscious level.

I don't think he really wanted to be one in the first place anyways. Near the very beginning of the game he mentions that he only became a dark knight because the king wanted him to be.

~DragonHeart~

[Silver]

In one word. Redemption. It's used in so many novels and computer games it's not funny. But hey, it always seems to get a reaction from people, even when completely predictable...

Cecil would have made a great dancer

[SailorCallie]

Originally Posted by Dawezy

In order to advance the story with the stereotypical "Good triumphing over Evil" scenario ~ Cecil had to prove himself by putting the Darkness behind him and embracing "the Light" as passed down by his father. Not *that* much of a spoiler there but yeah, on a personal level I found it kind of sad that he pretty much had no choice in the issue and was forced to convert from "Evil" to "Good".

Would've made for an interesting (alternate) story if he kept his Dark Knightly-ness to triumph over upper evils.

It would be like Darth Vader leaving the Sith in order to re-join the Jedi.

[Hannya]

I honetly don't care one way or another as long as he slices the demons and is the strongest member of my party.

[Dragoon_Nick]

Well, don't want to kill your hopes but umm...i think the best character in your party is always going to be Kain....

[Masamune master]

well first off, he would have had to change to a paladin in order to fight of golbez, and soon after, zemus. i also believe that you cant change the past, but you can change the future, and everyone can change who they are if they truly believ in themselves, and in this case, cecil truly believed that the power of light was far more stronger than the power of darkness, so he believed in the power of light and was able to triumph over his past self.

[chivalrous]

cecil is not wickedly bad, he mastered the dark sword,becoming a dark knight to protect Baron Kingdom,only the king's orders made him look bad for he can't defy those,and turns out that he had no choice because, story said that he was treated like a child..

[weberr13]

I think since FF is directly derived (ahem stolen ahem) from D&D it is really a good reversal. A D&D paladin has a holy sword, a steed(no horses in FF4), and some cool low level cleric (whitemage) magic. But when a Paladin character commits some alignment changing deed(either unlawful or evil) then has an encounter with an outsider (like a lunarian I guess) they have the option of becoming a dark paladin. At this point all their fighting feats (like the swordplay) stay but all their "good" magic is turned into dark cleric equivalents. What Square did here was almost the EXACT process, only in reverse. By resisting orders and standing for "good" in the classic sense he lost what could have made him a great dark knight. The encounter with the outsider was the catalyst for the change. On a different thread it was mentioned that Dark knights should have the opposite magics as Paladins, and I agree. Too bad that would have made dark Cecil way too cool to give up.

[T.G. Oskar]

Originally Posted by SailorCallie

It would be like Darth Vader leaving the Sith in order to re-join the Jedi.

Man, it's really odd I had to take one year to notice this...just to say:

SPOILER!!:

Darth Vader turns to the Light Side and becomes Anakin again. Heck, the most recent retcons of the old trilogy have Hayden Christiansen replacing the original actor when he becomes a Force Ghost!!

Erm, given how old and needless that would be, let's get into the beef, shall we?

I'll ask a single thing: would an evil character make a good story? Unless you find a good reason for it (and there ARE...), no truly evil being would save the world the way Cecil and company did it. The game itself is an epic story of redemption: Golbez begins helping the good guys at the very end of the game, beginning to redeem himself after all he did, be it controlled by Zemus or not. He was evil BEFORE all of this, so he was easier to manipulate. On the other hand, Cecil was actually good by nature, but he was forced to make a bad choice: turn into a Dark Knight. The nature of Cecil as a Dark Knight has made the class become something similar to Drizzt Do'Urden: a typically evil theme forcefully turned into something slightly good. Heck, you see now more Dark Knights than Paladins in most Final Fantasy games!!

For a game praising redemption, the main character had to abandon it's old ways of needless cause of suffering. He was already troubled since the very beginning of the game, and his journey caused him to understand the result of that suffering. He had to abandon the very power he wielded lest his chances of saving the world would be halted by his own hand. Hence, why the need to change from a Dark Knight (an embodiment of suffering and despair, obvious weapons of evil magnitude) into a Paladin (whom embodies the opposite virtues of sacrifice and hope).

Also, weber, I think I should point that Cecil's quest was actually akin to Atonement. Remember that spell Clerics have in their spell-list, that allow a buddy of yours to recover it's original alignment? Remember how the DMG tells you that a Paladin that loses it's powers can make one heck of a quest where he strips those stains that tarnished his armor in order to recover them? That's what Cecil did, but it was somehow different. The class description tells you that a person can't turn into a Paladin by mere force of will: it's a calling given to the individual. Cecil was called to be a Paladin, and the forces of Darkness played a bad hand at him by turning him to be a Dark Knight (as, if you recall correctly, the actual being that forced Cecil to become a Dark Knight wasn't the king of Baron, but Cagnazzo; one of the Fiends). He had to abandon his old ways, and atone for his sins, in order to change his alignment and become a full-fledged Paladin.

One little itty-bitty thing: Dark Knights aren't Blackguards. They have some things alike, but are fundamentally different. In better terms, while they share the fluff in one way or another (the Dark Knights don't actually NEED to be evil like Blackguards, but the dark fluff is there), mechanically they are different. It was well explained before: Cecil COULD save the world as a Dark Knight, but it would have been much harder as he would not have the real power to save it. Plus, the legend spoke of a being born "from Light and Darkness"; you don't ever defy a legend that contains a prophecy. It always works.

Yet another cliche that always seems to lurk out: prophecies.

[Ralz]

Well, Cecil was probably willing to "bid farewell to his bloodstained past." The voice on Mt. Ordeals(I'm saying nothing) gave Cecil his holy light, and tested him by making him fight his dark memories. Cecil wasn't evil, but his horrible acts as a Dark Knight struck fear into most. The story was all about Cecil's road to redemption, and when he became a Paladin, he finally atoned for all the wrongs he committed.

[Refieth]

Originally Posted by metal572

i find it weird becuase dark nights and paladins are like complete oposites and yes i know that cecil wasnt evil but if he was evil enough to be a dark night how could hechange to the complete opposite the paladin wich is the symbol of good. mayb some1 can explain it to me but i just found it weird and thought id mention it. PS yes i know cecil was regreting being a dark night but it just doesnt seem that some1 could change that much.

Cecil loved Rosa... and dark knights, true dark knights, can never love. And besides, if he was destined to be a dark knight forever, he would never had fallen in love with Rosa, because he would eventually go with the dark, and her with the light...

Besides, the whole storyline was basically about redemption. Cecil was tormented by the evil acts he'd done as a dark knight. The darkness had called to him, he had accepted it, and now it was coming back to haunt him. To quote Blaine in Pokémon Special... "the monster was him". He was terrified of what he had become, and he didn't think he could ever make up for it.

I bet that when he was fighting his past on Mt. Ordeals, he occasionally thought that maybe there wasn't enough good in his heart to overcome the evils if his past... okay, I think I should shut up now, before I bore you all to death.

[dawnmorning]

Cecil was already feeling uncomfortable over his sins that he committed and that he was a dark knight. So when that elder of Mysidia said that he had to become a paladin to overcome the bad guys, cause him being a dark knight, he couldn't win over darkness itself, he decided he had to go. But I'm sure that Cecil wanted to overcome his dark self, and becoming a paladin was like a test to put his dark self behind him. I found the part where he fights the dark version of himself really cool. And when he becomes a paladin, it showed how worthy he was of gaining the light. Cecil wasn't a bad person. He was forced to follow the king's orders, and on top of it, he felt incredible guilt on following the orders. That's when Rosa comes in and tells him that he isn't a bad person. He doesn't even kill Rydia as he was ordered to. FFIV basically tells the story of Cecil's redemption over his bloodstained past.

[soramaster]

Originally Posted by dawnmorning

Cecil was already feeling uncomfortable over his sins that he committed and that he was a dark knight. So when that elder of Mysidia said that he had to become a paladin to overcome the bad guys, cause him being a dark knight, he couldn't win over darkness itself, he decided he had to go. But I'm sure that Cecil wanted to overcome his dark self, and becoming a paladin was like a test to put his dark self behind him. I found the part where he fights the dark version of himself really cool. And when he becomes a paladin, it showed how worthy he was of gaining the light. Cecil wasn't a bad person. He was forced to follow the king's orders, and on top of it, he felt incredible guilt on following the orders. That's when Rosa comes in and tells him that he isn't a bad person. He doesn't even kill Rydia as he was ordered to. FFIV basically tells the story of Cecil's redemption over his bloodstained past.

i agree with everyone, and plus he was not a bad guy, all he did was folow the kings order, if he did not then he woould of suffered, so he had not choice there, but he did have a choice about becoming a Paladin and he choose to become one and never take another step back into his days when he was a Dark Knight, his redemption was the fact that he overcame his bloodstained past, and choose to end it all as a Paladin to the very brink of his humanity, and Cecil did in fact love Rosa, he wanted to protect her as well, so he became a Paladin for that reason, to protect the one he loves, he did not want anyone to suffer anymore just like he did in his past, so yeah he stopped being a Dark Knight and became a Paladin for those reasons as well, he was a good guy, but the king forced him to be a Dark Knight and in the end he chooses the power of light and becomes a Paladin