Club Discussions

[Andromeda]

The Phoenix Knights I have no issues with, they are not a faction. They fight within themselves and battle in a ranking system that their club follows. They do not look to fight other clubs. I'm not banning RP and RPB clubs, I just banning the Dark and Light clubs from ever existing again and any club that's intent is to fight other clubs. You can still create clubs with style and personalities. Surely you are creative people enough to come up with something less vague than Dark and Light clubs. We had plenty groups in the past with different styles. You can have one that is based solely on technology or sci-fi group. There are plenty of other areas to explore that are more specific and will work better.

And TFF Dark Side are not the only offenders. There are other factions that have been problematic in the past as well that soured things. You can make a RPB club as much as you like and we have those, but you have to keep to yourself. If you want to fight someone its not under your club's banner its an individual against another individual.

And as many people that know me, I never forget when trust is betrayed. When that happens there it is going to take time and nothing else to wear away. No amount of words will change my mind. And given my feelings on this matter its going to be a very long time before I consider changing my opinion on this matter. Until then the rule stays and will remain inflexible.

[Blacksmith]

You know, if we're wishing to revive much of anything at TFF, there's one important task that we as a community need to help improve. That's the problem with role-playing and RPBs in general as we all know they aren't very active besides a few new people trying to begin their career like every newb has. I think if we want to expand ourselves, our factions, and our overall activity a great way to do that would be to open a role-playing academy, a place where we can gather everyone from every faction and help mold our current generation of role-players into the kind of people we know and respect. That's what we need to be focusing on because as this originally was a role-playing site, we need to bring the determination to teach what we know to beginners. It's pretty much a relationship of parent to child and helping them create a greater future.

Now, of course, I wouldn't be surprised if this was mentioned before or tried before, but I'm certain in these times we need something like this. For so long, people like me have just been waiting and waiting for things to get better, yet forgetting that things don't get better if you don't do anything.

What I would suggest is creating a club filled with volunteer teachers and then creating a forum called the Role-play Academy, thus starting a school of sorts with exercises and regular one on one teacher-student role-plays. We could then unite everyone already here to go one-step further and create a TFF world similar to Final Fantasy and host events to create one large storyline. In addition, instead of someone jumping into the RP or RPB forum creating many characters, we could have everyone build just one character as well with the interaction and experiences from role-playing in this world.

This is a time where we shouldn't be dividing people into other factions or guilds in order to find that conflict that increases activity, but working together to do something greater than a war or battle that only last a few months. We need a renaissance era that brings everyone together.

[Rasler]

Choices that affect the masses are to be made by the administration. (And no, this administration has no requirement to bend to the will of the users.) Andromeda is a sane, sensible leader who has made this decision based on experience and accumulated knowledge. Andromeda is following one of the major rules of life: try not to repeat mistakes.

Admittedly, factions can lead to undesirable results, such as polarization, rule breaking/bending, and dissatisfaction. Andromeda has encountered this in the past and does not want to do it again, a decision I can understand and respect.

Unfortunately, a single large group probably wouldn't work either. After all, factions exist due to preferable population size and shared interests. An uber-group would be too large and unwieldy.

However, I am an overly forgiving person, and personally believe it to be in the community's best interest to have their factions, albeit in a controlled form.

[Mistress Sheena]

We had a writing/RPing academy called....Writer's Academy. It died because no one was interested in it. >_>;

[Andromeda]

Shadow is correct in that we had a group that was supposed to do just that Vicious. And actually TFF was not originally a role-playing forum unless you are saying it is a role-playing forum because it is a FF forum. It is FF first, role-playing was just something that is a side venture.

We have tried to do things that help out the new RPers and RPBers, but it requires people that are dedicate to the cause to keep going. Unfortunately, those sorts of people are few and far between. I can't say you could get a forum, but by all means you can attempt another club to achieve that very purpose.

I wonder if I should attempt crazyhorse again...

[Blacksmith]

I remember that. Well, maybe if we gather EVERYONE who can RP on the site to revive that, we might be able to save the idea and push it to greater scale of role-playing. I honestly don't see any other way other than uniting everyone. That's pretty much my point, to simply unite everyone and give some hope that won't be as false.

[T.G. Oskar]

As far as I can see, Andro does agree to improve the condition of the RP forum, and by extension the RPB forum (although that's Cesar's realm)

What Andro does not like is the drama that surfaces from inter-faction conflict, and that's the main problem, so it seems.

Now, I do not advocate very much the idea of such conflict, but if worked properly, then it could be of aid. Think of kayfabe (aka, the storyline in wrestling), where the characters apparently hate each other and the other side, but in real life are close friends. The idea is, what seems to be the source of the problem is that pride overcomes respect. Perhaps factions should drive more into respect than pride.

Factions can work within each other. Despite the bad blood shed within the famous war, the Masters and the BoD set a standard that could not be easily achieved in terms of the current state of RP/RPBing.

Originally Posted by Vicious

What I would suggest is creating a club filled with volunteer teachers and then creating a forum called the Role-play Academy, thus starting a school of sorts with exercises and regular one on one teacher-student role-plays. We could then unite everyone already here to go one-step further and create a TFF world similar to Final Fantasy and host events to create one large storyline. In addition, instead of someone jumping into the RP or RPB forum creating many characters, we could have everyone build just one character as well with the interaction and experiences from role-playing in this world.

This is a very good idea. Very good. I do believe some steps were taken before, and these weren't very successful, though. One thing (personal intake) I often ask of the person I use my faction character with is that if such battle becomes canonical to the story he develops. All battles I have had with my faction character include the tidbits of these battles, shown in physical form and style-wise. But that's just me. I often recommend that, but it's not like anyone is forced to follow my example.

Which is something I find is what may affect your idea, Vicious. Battles are only that, one shot battles which tend to end nowhere. There's no end, no defined end, which may be considered enough to string into a larger set of stories.

One thing I do believe is, the existence of factions causes an interesting point within a storyline. Some may seek to join, some may seek to stop them. Perhaps an agreement within both clubs may cause a particular scuffle in the shared world, and that may be solved by those who aren't affiliated. And that is indeed plenty of material enough for a bunch of storylines.

But...

Such an idea of a shared world, a set of shared rules, and a general agreement has never been encouraged in here. Here, the RPs are wide and varied, and the idea of one may not convince the rest. RPBs are meant to be one-shot, and having no correlation, no sense of character development at all.

Another thing that piqued my interest...

Originally Posted by Andro

You can still create clubs with style and personalities. Surely you are creative people enough to come up with something less vague than Dark and Light clubs. We had plenty groups in the past with different styles.

I thank you for considering us creative. But, lemme work a bit on that:

Light and Darkness are often the theme of a wide variety of stories. Not the most unique or original ones, but the ones that always find acceptance within the readers. It's a struggle that's almost as ancient as man itself. It's only natural that, when making a series of clubs, Light and Darkness come into some of the lists, as well as Nationality and Fan-base. And, Light and Darkness isn't that vague. There are many ways to represent Light and Darkness, and not all of them are Light=Good and Dark=Evil. But, that's the general assumption, and one assumption that will always find acceptance.

There are other sets of themes, such as Nature vs. Technology, Law vs. Chaos, and the like. Each of these clubs can become a faction, just as easily, with some work. Or not. But, when there are two ideas that normally take conflict within each other, then it is often natural that these ideas may find some way to vent their conflict. I mean, there's a club for Old-Skoolers. How much until one of these Nu-Skoolers makes a club and openly defies the Old-Skool club? Perhaps tomorrow, perhaps in a long time, perhaps never as the mods will see the ideas behind it.

Taking sides is something that no amount of moderation will ever be capable of preventing. It's something natural. What it can be done, is either prevent this or work respect into the differences.

And, Andro, do not take this as offensive, but just saying "Not allowed" is childish, in my opinion. I do consider you don't feel the same in that matter, but I see it that way because I see respect as the proper way to solve things, not intolerance. Perhaps you don;t see this as intolerance, or perhaps the only working way, but while you are preventing the source of the problem, you are closing your doors into a lot of possible things that could be done.

I agree a lot with Vicious' ideas of making an unified system and world (yet I do think factions can work together and go besides the petty insulting), but I see that "every man for himself" or "just some clubs that bicker between themselves" does not give the same impact than a faction, if we are to work into a world unique of the TFFers, for the TFFers.

[Blacksmith]

Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar

What Andro does not like is the drama that surfaces from inter-faction conflict, and that's the main problem, so it seems.

I agree with her as well. I can expect rivalries from factions, but when it becomes ridiculous drama, things need to be toned down. Drama is bad for business.

Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar

Which is something I find is what may affect your idea, Vicious. Battles are only that, one shot battles which tend to end nowhere. There's no end, no defined end, which may be considered enough to string into a larger set of stories.

I understand this type of thinking by many people. A lot of role-players just find RPBs pointless one-shot events. In a way, they're right, but I honestly know very well that if I hadn't learned to RPB over my career, I wouldn't have come this far. RPBs have helped me evolve in character creation and my overall creativity with making a character that's outside the typical standards of a lawful giddy knight or some mary-sue Aeris wannabe. That and RPBs help one be better at that confliction within RPs and helps things progress. It's just as important as learning how to role-play.

Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar

But...

Such an idea of a shared world, a set of shared rules, and a general agreement has never been encouraged in here. Here, the RPs are wide and varied, and the idea of one may not convince the rest. RPBs are meant to be one-shot, and having no correlation, no sense of character development at all.

Well, my suggestion of a TFF world is more based on something that gives freedom to everyone within a shared yet large world without condensing it into something boring. It would be a place that would encourage creativity and character development.

[Andromeda]

You can call me whatever you want. I've heard worse and been called worse. It is not going to change my mind. I'm not bending to any amount of pressure or voices that I get trying to convince me that I should give this a second chance. Second chances have been given, too many in fact. That is why I've said there is not going to be anymore. Factions had their day and many chances. RP and RPB like we did in the old days. It worked for us then and it will work for us now.

The longest club that exists on this forum is in fact the TFF Royalty a club that has existed since before even I was a member here which means that its been around for 6 plus years. The club has changed members, but not its ways. It is still the same old ways club that it was when it was started. They one thing Roleplay. That is what other clubs that RP and RPB did. They made threads and roleplayed. They battled each other for status in their clubs to better themselves. Each club was separate and did not interfere with another club. All of that faction/clan stuff was done in a separate forum somewhere else. The clubs forum is not the forum for this type of activity.

The club forums primary purpose is a fandom for people of liked interests to talk about the same thing. This is generally the same show or game. It allowed people to socialize with others and debate topics. That remains what the primary purpose of what the clubs should be about. In technicality the roleplaying clubs do not really meet that criteria since all activity is driven to other areas and about the only thing to debate is the RP or RPB that is occurring. But they have existed.

[Silver]

Why not just say that factions are fine so long as people stick to the rules? No flaming or anything regardless of how evil a club is. If it promotes activity through RPBs it could be healthy for TFF.

Hell, maybe even up the punishments for those who flame in a faction just to get the point across... Ultimately I have no real power in this (and regardless of what happens I respect Andromeda's ability to stay firm with decisions), but I do personally think something could happen to make everyone happy if it's thought through. Ever way though as it's not like that many people RPB seriously no more... (I see it as just a bit of fun myself. )

My two cents.

[LocoColt04]

Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar

As far as I can see, Andro does agree to improve the condition of the RP forum, and by extension the RPB forum (although that's Cesar's realm)

I'm actually working on that right now.

Originally Posted by Silver

Hell, maybe even up the punishments for those who flame in a faction just to get the point across...

Yeah, we tried that. Most of those in the BoD tended not to care... until they landed two out of three strikes, and then they'd wait for a warning to wear off before acting up again. Others showed blatant disrespect and got themselves banned anyway.

If Andro's going to allow the recreation of a new dark faction, there will have to be a VERY strict zero tolerance rule in place. Looking at it that way, wouldn't that severely limit the majority of things any "good" dark side would want to discuss? Gore, death, blood, rape, etcetera... most of it would have to be cut out altogether. We'd have to redefine dark.

Personally, I still think we should have a third faction to round out the triad, but we'll see where this goes with what we've already got, first. Admittedly, both the SoI and TM have been practically dead since February...

[Anomaly]

You see, the funny thing here is I'm not sure the fourth rule is even relevant...or enforceable. A faction can exist if its a club or not...in fact a club could exist devoted to, oh, origami for the sake of argument, who only allowed members of a certain alignment to join. Then they could just happen to take an interest in creating conflict with a club who's only declared interest is in motor cross and proceed to fuss and feud amongst themselves.

In fact, as I previously mentioned, it wouldn't even have to go that far as a faction could exist and NOT BE OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZED. Take away the club thread and all people will do is put a bit of text or a little banner in their sig about 'proud member of the tribe of darkness/light/monkey's - Want to join? Ask me how!'

The fourth rule neither truly denies anything nor does it fix the problem associated 'faction drama' as its been so delightfully referred to. All it really does it place limitations on a forum activity that is designed to allow like minded individuals to group together closely and participate in/discuss the things that interest them the most.

I'm not saying I do not understand the reasoning behind this declaration, nor am I saying I do not sympathize with those that have to deal with the more colorful individuals that factions tend to attract. All I'm saying is it ends up as a whole lot of fuss over nothing...and something that holds the potential to spark only further drama.

Admittedly, both the SoI and TM have been practically dead since February...

The result of a bit of required down time, and the lack of a viable antagonist. We can turn that around by taking on the role of the antagonist, but it didn't seem it was the right time for such a dramatic shift. This issue could change that thinking among the Circle, however. But then again, it may simply end with a decision to move elsewhere.