Wish House - Page 11

*Bryan* · 07-17-2006, 08:50 PM

I really liked SH2, but I still like SH3 better. It's a close one, though. A very close one.

I'm not sure what my favorite part in the game is, to be honest. I'd probably have to say the Labirynth. The fact that:

Spoiler:

Pyramid Head is lurking around in various unknown places is scary as ****.

Pretty sweet part. I'll have to play it three more times to get the rest of the endings. I'd like to eventually see them all, but I have to do the same thing with SH3.

OH! I ordered the Silent Hill Experience today from Ebay. It should be in next week sometime. Shortly after, I'll be getting a PSP from work. I can't wait for that. It's going to be sweet!

I'm going to go get something to eat and then read back through Chez's posts about SH2. I just got off work. Fun fun.

*Chez Daja* · 07-17-2006, 08:56 PM

Ah, finally! I'm glad you'll finally get to read it. Hopefully I can get everybody elses' opinions on it as well. If Wintermetal EVER finished SH2, that is.

Hurry up, man! Seriously!

*Bryan* · 07-17-2006, 11:57 PM

Well, you thought nobody would ever read these....how wrong you are! I'll go through and share my thoughts with your's, along with some of my own that I've developed when I played the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chez

I like how, as the story goes on, you can actually get a sense of James' mental health deteriorating more and more, little by little. I couldn't help but feel a little sorry for him. I loved how...

Spoiler:

Maria was a figment of his imagination, put there to represent Mary, but he found her in sluttier appearence, which represented a lot of his sexual wants and needs.

Well, I don't know what to think of that because...

Spoiler:

If you get the "Maria" ending of the game, you leave Silent Hill with her. I think that Maria is a real person. Do you remember in the hospital when she layed down in bed? Well, later on, you go back to that room and she's gone. I think that clear up to that point, it is the real Maria. Later on in the hospital, Maria meets up with James, hugging on to him and crying, telling him never to leave her again.

That just doesn't sound like the Maria that we first met, does it? I think at that point, the real Maria went looking for James and wound up in the park (where you meet up with her if you beat the game and recieve the "Maria" ending). Plus, if you notice that the real Maria has a cough throughout the game. When the vision of Maria (not the real Maria) shows up, she doesn't cough at all.

So I do think that Maria is real, but at one point in the game, James meets up with a fake Maria, one who manipulates his mind because she looks so much like Mary. All of the times that we see "Maria" get killed, it's just the vision of her, not the real Maria who is in the park.

Anyhow, yes, at one point Maria is used (and replicated) to toy with James' mind. That's what I think...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chez

There were other sexual meanings in the game as well, such as...

Spoiler:

Pyramid Head. Found raping these creatures, which represented all of James' unmet sexual needs from Mary while she was sick. It was actually said that James raped her before he killed her, but I have no idea if this is true. If James did rape her, that probably drove him to more guilt.

See, here's the thing about James...

Spoiler:

I don't believe that he raped her. I think he truely didn't want to see her suffer (as he said), so he killed her. I think that this Pyramid Head was here for Angela and James just so happened to be seeing it. I think that this symbolized her emotional problems. They were pretty close to her. I think that these Pyramid Heads were around for each person's reasons, not strictly for James. I believe that they attacked James whenever he was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be or seeing what he wasn't supposed to be seeing.

Because if you notice, James always seemed to run into the Pyramid Heads. I don't think that he was supposed to do this. He wasn't supposed to see it. The only time that he was was at the end of the game when he faced the two of them. One representing Eddie, the other representing Mary.

As for when the Pyramid Head killed the fake Maria, I think it was the Pyramid Head's pretty much saying that she got what was coming to her and to move on. As in nothing more to see. To keep the two apart. This only further messed with James' head, though the real Maria was in fact, safe in the park across town.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chez

In the end, Eddie goes crazy and...

Spoiler:

James ends up killing him. After he does so, another Pyramid Head appears, representing more guilt, and another kill. But it's said only the first is driven by sexual want and need, the one that appeared first. His want and need to make love to his wife, making him not only guilty for killing Mary, but even more guilty for still having his sex drive while she was sick. The other Pyramid Head is in guilt for Eddie.

With Eddie's case...

Spoiler:

That Pyramid Head that you run into was meant to kill Eddie, not James. Again, James runs into the Pyramid Head by accident. It's not for his eyes, because it is between that Pyramid Head and Eddie. In turn, for killing Eddie, another Pyramid Head would be added for James at the end of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chez

In the end, as James begins to overcome his guilt, the Pyramid Heads'...

Spoiler:

Kill themselves, representing the over-layer of guilt being washed away.

Chez...

Spoiler:

This is exactly what I was thinking and I believe it is dead on because this is the only time that James actually tries to kill the Pyramid Heads and the only time that they are meant to kill him. Any other time, it's just the Pyramid Heads attacking him (without intent to actually kill him) because he is in the wrong place and it's not yet his time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chez

Something else that interested me was...

Spoiler:

Everything in the game, in James' "adventure" is a figment of his own imagination, apart from a few of the other people he encounters. The people he does meet have some kind of link for being in Silent Hill...

As for James' adventure...

Spoiler:

I don't think that it was just a figment of his own imagination. The people that were there were real and they were being judged and taken care of by executioners (Pyramid Heads). The creatures were merely there based on the severity of each person's actions. Not only creatures, but the flames that Angela walked into for example. Not everyone could see those flames, but James did. This surprised Angela.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chez

Take James, who was drawn to Silent Hill because he...

Spoiler:

Received a letter, which in the end, wasn't really a letter at all, he imagined it. He was drawn there from guilt, and put through pain of killing his wife and his continous want to make love to her. Equals even more guilt, which drove him to a pyschotic break, making him "see" these weird monsters.

Spoiler:

I think the letter was real, but could only be seen by him. I know that kinda doesn't make sense, but you probably know what I mean. It was a way for the town to call to him simply because he and Mary had ties to Silent Hill. I don't think Mary actually existed (the one that James was after in Silent Hill), but I also don't think she was just a figment of James' imagination. In other words, I don't think that was Mary at all. Just the town playing a cruel game with James. There is a somewhat organized system to the town and how it handles those it intends to punish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chez

And then there's Eddie, whom...

Spoiler:

Killed and man and a dog, and escaped to Silent Hill after the police began chasing him. He's simple-minded and believes there is nothing wrong with killing people who look at him strangely. He is driven to Silent Hill from his own guilt of killing people, but his own insanity and insecurity drove him into believing he was doing the right thing.

True! But...

Spoiler:

He was called there just as James was, I think. I don't think it was unintentional that he wound up in Silent Hill. It was his destiny to wind up there and if James hadn't have killed him, that Pyramid Head was well on it's way to get the job done.

The people that Eddie killed were created by the town to **** with his mind. James could see them as well because again, he was in the wrong place. He wasn't meant to see them, but he did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chez

Then of course, poor Angela, who...

Spoiler:

Was beaten and raped by her dad. She goes to Silent Hill looking for her mother, whom is believed to have lived in Blue Creek Apartment buildings. There is a room of Angela's pain, where there are hole in the walls, with motions of penetration, representing her rape. I found that extremely upsetting, because in the game, she is meant to only be 16 or 17. She ran away from home after she finished off in high school, but he dad found her, brought her back home and did some pretty shitty things to her. She ran away again, to Silent Hill, still looking for her mother. She doesn't think she'll ever be happy, and often attempts to committ suicide. Like for example, in the scene of James meeting her when she's lying on the floor, in that apartment room. She's holding a knife in her hand, one that she plans to use to cut herself with. James manages somehow to convince her suicide isn't the only option and she gives her knife to him. She is in Silent Hill because of the pain she has suffered. You also have to face a boss which is SUPPOSED to be the shape of a bed frame with two figures, one being raped, representing Angela herself. She believes this hideous creature is her father.

Ah...Angela....

Spoiler:

She wasn't crazy, just had it far worse than anyone else in the town. I believe that she was there because of her constant attempts to commit suicide. Not appreciating life, so the Pyramid Heads were there to take it from her.

Luckily for her, she burned alive. I'd much rather to that than be ripped apart my a massive sword.

Once she had given up hope and actually tried to kill herself in Silent Hill, that's when things started getting really bad for her. At that point, there was no hope. She was commiting more and more of the sins she was being punished for, thus resulting in more psychological tampering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chez

There's a little Laura...

Spoiler:

Whom was friends with Mary in hospital. Mary loved Laura and wanted to adopt her. After you complete the game, there is an ending of which James can adopt her and leave with her. It's said that Laura cannot see any of the monsters because she is innocent and has done nothing wrong. To Laura, it's just a ghost town, therefore she isn't scared and doesn't feel the fear that the others do. It is also said that Angela cannot see many of the creatures either. Only ones that conflict with her own emotional pain.

Okay, with Laura...

Spoiler:

I think she's in Silent Hill to mess with James just that much more. She hated James and her actions toward him only tampered with other parts of his already damaged emotions. She's young, so she doesn't know any better with the letters sent to her from "Mary". They are simply to trick her into sticking around the town to look for her, though she would never be able to find her.

I think she's there strictly to mess with James.

Wow. That was alot of spoil tags....

*Chez Daja* · 07-18-2006, 07:13 AM

Hey, interesting concept you have there. ALTHOUGH! One thing. The Maria thing, you said she...

Spoiler:

Wasn't a figment of his imagination

...

I read somewhere from an SH site that she was... That's how I began thinking of it that way. Although it may not be a reliable source. I'm glad you took the read to read and debate! I respect everything you have to say about theg ame, so I find this rather interesting.

Your Pyramid Head thing was also very interesting. Wiki (and other sources) have said he WAS there for James, BUT I guess you could also be right.
This game isn't the type of game you can really generalize on, if you ask me. It's a little open ended at some points, so who knows which one of us is "right". Still interesting, though! And some valid points!

Loki · 07-18-2006, 08:29 AM

Ownage Avatar Chez, I love that picture of Heather.

As far as Maria goes, I'm also going with that she

Spoiler:

is in his imagination and nothing else. I found that it was also mentioned in the offical Japanese guide for SH2.
Name: Maria

Age: 25

Sex: F

Job: Dancer

Profile: A woman who bears an uncanny resemblance to Mary, although her personality and taste in clothing are completely opposite. For some reason, she tags along with James.

Creator's comment

The heroine from the first scenario also had an existence characterized by a double personality. The first character is «Mary», and so the name «Maria» is derived from that.

Raison d'etre

James bears the weight of the crime of killing his wife, resulting in the creation of this delusion. It is established in the third game that Maria was a dancer at the club Heaven's Night.

This Lost Memories segment is taken from the Official Guide made by Konami in Japan and the articles are written by Team Silent members. It can't get more Official than this.

So it's a possibility that when James and Mary were in Silent Hill, he remembered the dancer and pictured her with Mary's similarities.

As far as Pyramid Head goes, read on

Spoiler:

Pyramid Head and Maria interact rather frequently, and the end result is always Maria getting killed in some way by him or it, if you will.

First, we have to categorize Maria. What is Maria?

She is an illusion. She's a fake, a false Mary, a false face. And at the end of the game, we see that face removed, with the real face beneath. She is there to tempt James, to lead him away from Mary.

Most importantly, she symbolizes the delusion that James suffers. He spends much of the game completely unaware of what he did to his wife. He doesn't really know it, but he can't find Mary without breaking through this delusion of his. Maria is the embodiment of this delusion, for she herself is an illusion. If you stay with her, care for her, and associate too closely with her, in the end, you must instead fight Mary. James forsakes his wife and instead decides to embrace his delusion, to live in fantasy. Of course, the ending implies that it's a decision he'll soon regret.

Pyramid Head is the counter-effect. Like so many people theorize, Pyramid Head is indicative of James, but only in a passing sense. He is much more symbolic of the truth, of reality. On occasion he directly bullies James, but he never really seems like he intends to kill James. In the apartments, he gets quite brutal but he gives up rather quickly. In the Labyrinth, he appears twice. In one instance, you can pass him by without even seeing him. In the other, where he has his Great Knife, he stalks around in a circle, perhaps to keep you away from his belongings and keep you going the way you're supposed to. Note that if you go down there and do not step into the outer ring, Pyramid Head will walk right by James and ignore his presence. Even when he knocks James off the roof, it's quite clear that he's pulling his punches. What he's doing is doling out the tough love, in a sense.

But more importantly, Pyramid Head's claim to fame is that he kills Maria in particularly brutal fashion, and he does this three seperate times. In the hospital basement, Pyramid Head directly assaults Maria. He will not bother James unless James gets in the way. The final time, when there are two Pyramid Heads, James watches Maria die once again. But this time, he gets the point. He understands what Pyramid Head is, and what Maria really is. The Pyramid Heads attack again, but just as before, they don't really seem to have their heart in it. They're simply reinforcing what James seems to have realized. Once he does, they end themselves, for they have served their purpose and achieved their goal. They then open the way to Maria, the true adversary. Pyramid Head has killed Maria repeatedly as instruction to James; to tell him that he must do it himself. She is the demon, she is the illusion, and you will never get what you want while she survives.

Maria now wears a different false face, that of Mary's, but Mary she's not, and she's free to admit it. This is her last, most desperate attempt to beguile James, the last remnants of the illusion hanging on for dear life. James will have no part of it, and damns her for what she is. The illusion is finally broken, but it must be destroyed, and that's what James does. The monstrous Maria attacks, and he defeats her. The last threads of this falsehood fade away as Maria chants James' name. He severs them for good with whatever weapon he's got. The part of his mind that clung to the falsehood he perpetrated is no more, having been cast out. He is then free to face Mary, and to say what needs to be said.

What about the Maria ending?

Well, go back to the final 2 Pyramid Head battle. They still give up and give in, but not because they've served their purpose. Rather, in this case, they are no longer effective. They cannot break James of his illusion, as he is set on Maria. Therefore, the rational, truth-seeking part of his mind has one last trick left; Mary herself. Mary is the antithesis of Maria in this sense, she is desperately trying to make James realize the truth. James refuses this, and defeats the shade of his wife. He does know the truth, but he is willing to hide it away again, to imprison it for good, which he does, as Mary chants his name and he aims his gun at her head. He is now free to continue living in his delusion, along with his illusion, Maria.

*Chez Daja* · 07-18-2006, 10:20 AM

Wow, Kalisto! Firstly, thanks for the compliment on my avatar, this is my favourite Heather picture as well. ^_^; .

That's some serious spoil stuff there! Amazing! The thing on Pyramid Head interested me most, though. If you think deeply about it, it seems like the most logical thing to say in the sense of PH's, James and SH2.

I think the Maria ending is the saddest, mainly because James...

Spoiler:

Puts the real Mary from his mind and goes off with Maria, her, somewhat "counter being"...

Very upsetting, indeed.

*Bryan* · 07-18-2006, 11:47 AM

Chez. That avatar is ****ing incredible. I've had this huge obbession with Milla Jovovich since I can remember. You. Are. The. Coolest.

Kalisto, the spoils are nice. Reading other people's thoughts on SH2 kinda makes a person go crazy, because there is so much to figure out. Just when you think you've got it pinned down, someone else comes up with a really valid point.

It's crazy. Who knows. There are definitely no heroes in Silent Hill 2. I think we can agree on that one.

*Chez Daja* · 07-18-2006, 11:55 AM

Hollow, yeah. I've always loved Milla, too. ^_^;

I definately agree on your second paragraph as well. Seems like everyone has a different view, although pretty closesly related to the subject. Some interesting thoughts out there!

Yeah, there's no hereos' in SH2 at all. What with the fact James never supposedly

Spoiler:

returns from Silent Hill. (As is said in SH4 when you examine the picture the Super gave you in Henrys' living room.)

Awesome stuff!

*Bryan* · 07-19-2006, 10:29 AM

Woah. I never knew that James

Spoiler:

never made it out of Silent Hill

It kinda makes you look at the game a bit different. It's actually pretty depressing. I'm going to have to run back through The Room to check that out. Good find!

*EDIT*

Also, Chez...

Spoiler:

Were you able to get all of the answers correct with the Trick or Treat box with no help?

You better not have had any help!!!

*Chez Daja* · 07-19-2006, 10:39 AM

Yeah, it's quite interesting!

I find a lot of interesting things out when I examine everything on the games. It takes considerably longer, but it's nice to know everything about everything!

And yeah, that spoiler is right, apparently. Maybe he...

Spoiler:

Got stuck in town? Like in the film and the game, when the road was just...gone?
...After that, I assume he must've been trapped in his nightmare...In Silent Hill until death.

Hmm...

*Bryan* · 07-19-2006, 01:12 PM

It's pretty sad to think about, really.

I'm really tied up in the whole Alessa side of things. HOPEFULLY the next Silent Hill will have Alessa in it or at least an Alessa oriented story. Now that the Silent Hill Experience is on it's way to my house, next I'll just have to order the first Silent Hill and my collection will be complete!

I had thought about picking up the copies for Xbox, too. We had a copy of SH2 for Xbox at work and I didn't even know it or I would have bought it. I hear there is extra stuff in the Xbox version of SH2. I'd like to find out what it is, but I really don't like Xbox. I wouldn't buy a 360, but I might buy a used Xbox with my employee discount sometime strictly for those games. They're not too expensive anymore, really.

Anyhow. Silent Hill. Once I get all of this stuff, I need to find more Silent Hill stuff to get. I'm becoming obsessed! Even a friend of mine said that I had a sick fascination with Silent Hill. I think she may be right...

Who cares?!