Who or Whats running the show?

[some guy]

O.k This'll probably end up as spam 'cos I'm not too good at starting up threads, but here we go,
Why do you think we are here?
Who or what tells us what to do?
Do you think its God (which ever you believe in if you do), Fate/Destiny or do we make our own path for ourselves?

Personaly, I'm stuck between fate and ourselves, I'm not a real religious person.
And once in a while I'll dream, something that will happen in the near or far future (being within the week of the year, its happened a couple of times whether you believe it or not, and I'm not trying to "brag" about it or persuade you to believe me) but then when the event happens, I will try to alter it from what I remember. Because my memory is so crappy if feels like deja vu but often, I'll remember the the dream and it'll happen within the month.

But anyway please tell me what you think.

[Spiral Architect]

Well I'm very into science so i believe in the big bang theory and that no "higher being" created us,
As for what makes us takes the paths we take i beleve that there is such a thing as fate and no matter how we try to avoid it, in the end it's decisions are final, although we may be able to alter fate, we cannot completely change the outcome

[pulse]

I think it is God running the show, but I also think that we have free will so we're also running the show. But I also believe in fate, because the way I see it, is that even if we were created with free will, God is powerful enough to know every decision we will ever make, so that to me is a kind of fate as well.

[Proxy]

I can not say with one hundred percent certainty that God does or does not exist. I’m neither a theologian nor a scientist and so have not excluded either possibility. Obviously I have my inclinations but… who doesn’t?

The same basic question is posed several different ways. Which is it, Free Will or Fate? Did God create the Universe or did the Big Bang Create the Universe? Are you in charge of your life or aren’t you?

I figured out an early age that I can’t answer those questions. But I can speculate on what, if any, difference it would make in my life if one or the other were established as absolute truth.

Let’s assume that free will exists and fate is pure fiction. That means you’re in charge of everything you do and nothing that happens to you was ‘meant to be.’ Does that mean your life is less significant because it wasn’t mapped out in the stars? I don’t think it would. I’d pat myself on the back and say “Congratulations self; you’re responsible for everything that has happened to you, good and bad.”

Conversely, if free will turned out to be nonsense and fate turned out to be real, what would that change? No matter what you did it would be fated to happen. Would it make you live your life any differently? Even if you laid in bed the rest of your life after finding out then that would be what was fated to happen. There’d be some security in knowing, I suppose, but day to day would it make that big of a difference?

If God exists s/he doesn’t seem to mind blaspheming but isn’t susceptible to flattery (prayer.) “The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike.”

If God doesn’t exist then humans are totally responsible for the way things are, life only has meaning once you give it meaning, and the Catholic Church is responsible for the most expensive hoax in all of human history.

I ask; either way would it make any real difference in your life assuming you’re not devout? (Scientist don’t claim God doesn’t exist; they argue against the ridiculous, like the Earth being 6,000 old.)

[Frank_White]

I think the idea of fate, you being fated to do something, an event fated to happen to you, is crap.

Really, if something bad happens to you and all you can do is shake your fist at the sky, maybe you deserve whatever is was that happened to you? Does copping out of life with a "Oh well, can't help it." really sound like something a confident, motivated person would do?

NIMO. We should always be working hard towards our future, as we're the only ones who'll be making it happen.

[Lai]

People need to stop thinking that it's only God or the Big Bang. The Big Bang theory isn't even the only scientific theory as to the start of the universe; it's just the most well-known. There are several others that people might consider more believable. Or make your own theory, for that matter. It doesn't matter.

[Proxy]

People need to stop thinking that it's only God or the Big Bang.

“God” and the “Big Bang” are only tags for the larger question; Was the Universe created by a higher power or is there a scientific explanation for it?

These two things, in the minds of most, are mutually exclusive. One of them is true and so then the other must be false. In the end, I suppose (in some sense), it could be both. God could have set the Big Bang in motion. As a reasonable person I can’t say I know for sure and so that remains a possibility. What I cannot imagine, however, is that there is some third alternative to both that people are just overlooking.

The Big Bang theory isn't even the only scientific theory as to the start of the universe; it's just the most well-known. There are several others that people might consider more believable.

It is the most well known because it is the most widely accepted in the Scientific community. Based on the sciences we comprehend and the data and facts we have been able to extrapolate from the Universe around us the Big Bang theory is the most plausible. Of course there are others… but if scientific validity is your premises for judgment it would seem illogical to go with a less scientifically validated theory.

If all that is required for your thoughts on the origin of the universe is that said thought is believable then pretty much anything is acceptable. If you aren’t going to base what you accept off science and only on what you feel is correct… I think you’re probably religious (weather you know it or not.)

Or make your own theory, for that matter. It doesn't matter.

Religion was mankind’s first Science. What links the original incarnation of religion and today’s sciences is the search for truth. That’s why it matters (for those to whom it matters.) We don’t believe the Sun is pulled across the sky by a chariot anymore (though I’ve always thought that was a fascinating thought.) We don’t believe vengeful Gods are responsible for the changing seasons. We don’t believe Earth is flat or that it is the center of the cosmos. We stopped believing these things because through the course of human exploration we have found those things to be false.

(Now, we could get into ‘well how do we really know, and muck this up like a bunch of Sophomore philosophy students but I prefer to stay in the tangible realm.)

Make your own theory. Then test it. Blind belief makes for the easiest kind of person to manipulate. The people of North Korea herald their leader as a God incarnate and never question it. They believe it because no one ever tests that idea. For the people of North Korea that is truth. For the rest of the world that idea is… silly at best if not wholly laughable.
If your search is for truth there is a partial answer out there that seems plausible based on the scientific observations that have been made over the course of our history. If your search is for comfort there is a complete and total answer out there that exists to comfort you and those who share your search. Truth and comfort; neither are bad, one isn’t better than the other, but they shouldn’t be confused as the same thing.

[Silver]

I believe in God, I believe he created us. It's not rational thought, just a niggling feeling in the back of my mind.
But then I also believe he gave us free choice. Essentially letting us run the show ourselves, albeit with having to face the positive and/or negative consequences at the end. Or even during the journey. You can see it, right? Someone does one thing and it has several rippling effects which in turn have several more...

I believe primarily in chaos and personal freedoms, even if that can lead to it's own problems in many ways. There's just something more fun about it...
And then I just see a great beauty in chaos and imperfection...

What I've written here probably sums up my what I tend to always believe, but then many of my views are constantly evolving as a result of continuously asking questions and just thinking about things for absurd amounts of time. Insomnia does have it's advantages...

Oh and though I believe in God, I also do hold a lot of respect for science. Sure I believe neither science nor religion can prove anything, but I find knowing as much as you can about everything leads to a few revelations that may have never been achieved...
Whether or not they hold any merit themselves though is another matter entirely.

[Lai]

Originally Posted by Proxy

“God” and the “Big Bang” are only tags for the larger question; Was the Universe created by a higher power or is there a scientific explanation for it?

If people want to question the debate between science and a higher power, they should phrase the question as such. Asking about "God" or the "Big Bang" sets it exclusively to those two. The thread creator didn't do it, but ever post in reply did.

These two things, in the minds of most, are mutually exclusive. One of them is true and so then the other must be false. In the end, I suppose (in some sense), it could be both. God could have set the Big Bang in motion. As a reasonable person I can’t say I know for sure and so that remains a possibility. What I cannot imagine, however, is that there is some third alternative to both that people are just overlooking.

Why should one of them have to be true and the other false? Why would it have to be as black and white as that? And though you may not be able to imagine it, does that mean that a third possibility is nonexistent?

It is the most well known because it is the most widely accepted in the Scientific community. Based on the sciences we comprehend and the data and facts we have been able to extrapolate from the Universe around us the Big Bang theory is the most plausible. Of course there are others… but if scientific validity is your premises for judgment it would seem illogical to go with a less scientifically validated theory.

[/quote]

Yeah, it is the most plausible thus far, but that doesn't mean that there are people that may disagree with it in the scientific community. It's also the most well known because it's the most commercialized.

If all that is required for your thoughts on the origin of the universe is that said thought is believable then pretty much anything is acceptable. If you aren’t going to base what you accept off science and only on what you feel is correct… I think you’re probably religious (weather you know it or not.)

I don't know if this statement was directed at me or people in general, but if it was directed at me you are putting words in my mouth that I never said. To clarify, I am of a scientific mind. I don't put any stock into my "feelings". I am religious, but not in the conventional sense that most people probably are. I don't need to get into that in this thread, however.

Religion was mankind’s first Science. What links the original incarnation of religion and today’s sciences is the search for truth. That’s why it matters (for those to whom it matters.) We don’t believe the Sun is pulled across the sky by a chariot anymore (though I’ve always thought that was a fascinating thought.) We don’t believe vengeful Gods are responsible for the changing seasons. We don’t believe Earth is flat or that it is the center of the cosmos. We stopped believing these things because through the course of human exploration we have found those things to be false.

(Now, we could get into ‘well how do we really know, and muck this up like a bunch of Sophomore philosophy students but I prefer to stay in the tangible realm.)

Make your own theory. Then test it. Blind belief makes for the easiest kind of person to manipulate. The people of North Korea herald their leader as a God incarnate and never question it. They believe it because no one ever tests that idea. For the people of North Korea that is truth. For the rest of the world that idea is… silly at best if not wholly laughable.
If your search is for truth there is a partial answer out there that seems plausible based on the scientific observations that have been made over the course of our history. If your search is for comfort there is a complete and total answer out there that exists to comfort you and those who share your search. Truth and comfort; neither are bad, one isn’t better than the other, but they shouldn’t be confused as the same thing.

I don't get how this is all relevant. It's once again putting words into my mouth.

[James D.]

Originally Posted by Lai

People need to stop thinking that it's only God or the Big Bang. The Big Bang theory isn't even the only scientific theory as to the start of the universe; it's just the most well-known. There are several others that people might consider more believable. Or make your own theory, for that matter. It doesn't matter.

The Big Bang is the only scientific theory with any real scientific consensus. Of course, it is still just a theorem, just like evolution. By the same token, relativity and gravity are both theorems.

I agree with the Big Bang. It makes the most sense from a scientific standpoint. You all know the supporting evidence, and if not, you can wiki them. Of course, I only have a semester of astronomy to base this on, so there are a lot of people more qualified.

As to the question of will, we are in control. I don't believe in a God, and if I did, He wouldn't be in control.

[Jin]

Fate and free will are like two sides of the same coin. Both are utterly different upon inspection, but no matter which side is facing up, they both accomplish the same objective. Whether free will exists or not is not an answerable question. If I laugh at what I believe to be a sign of fate and proceed in the opposite direction, it is just as possible that fate is what made me do so as it is that I chose to do so. No matter how many choices we make, good or bad, it is possible that we were destined to make them. In the same way, no matter how many convenient coincidences we come across, there is no reason they cannot be simple coincidences based on a series of self willed choices. In my opinion, however, it's healthier to treat the world as if free will existed, or at least treat fate as unkowable, instead of being bound by what you believe it to be.

As for higher powers, etc, etc, we've had this debate too many times and it's getting old. So I'll forgo that part. Besides, it doesn't help to answer the fate/free will question. For content's sake, I'm agnostic. And I'll leave it at that.

[Pete]

I feel like everything is pretty relative in all aspects. I believe in intelligent design as far as the creation of the universe. While completely possible, and more likely than not, I do believe that we evolved from single celled organisms, and that the Big Bang was the cause for our planet to be put in it's current position. At the same time I feel that it's a little too perfect how everything somehow worked out, to the point where we had just the right set of circumstances to create life on this planet in the first place. billions of years ago, when the first cells (supposedly) were formed, the Earth could not be inhabited by humans, or any other living matter, aside from single cells. I believe that God created those and pushed evolution along ever so slightly in order to get us to where we are today.

As for the idea of fate vs free will. I believe in Fate in the Greek sense, where the three goddesses weave, measure and cut your line of fate. Because, you don't ask to be born; it just happens. And most of the time, you don't have a choice in how long you live (unless you ***** out and kill yourself). I do feel that we have free will to make our own decisions. I can choose to wear the shirt that I am today. Granted, we do certain things and wear certain clothes because of the effect we are hoping it has, but that's another story, and something quite unrelated.

You can take coincidences as signs from Fate, or they can simply be coincidences, or even plain luck. But think about it, for every thousand or so times one of these coincidences doesn't happen, it will maybe once or twice.

I mean, at one point (quite recently) I was making a reference to my ex. I nicknamed her Hurricane, because over the summer, she'd drive 4 hours just to get into fights about us breaking up, and leaving a trail of destruction in her path.

I spoke to a friend about the situation (essentially my not wanting anything to do with the girl). And jokingly, he stated that I gotta run, run for my life. Moments later, "Hurricane" started to IM me, right as The Rolling Stones' "Gimme Shelter" began. Moments after that, on the line "If I don't get some shelter..." the girl I'm currently talking to randomly IM'd me.

You can take that story as either a sign, or just a hilarious coincidence.

[Lai]

What is wrong with people on this forum? I'm always getting neg repped for disagreeing with you. If you're going to neg me, say more than "grow up" or "you're so emo". Neither of them make any sense. The least you could do is leave your name, or sufficient explanation as to why I should "grow up", or what I said that warrants me "growing up". I can only assume it was Proxy, because Proxy is the only one who I came out and disagreed with in this thread. I'm taking El Wray's notion and putting all of the ridiculous neg rep I've received in my sig. If you want to tell me I should grow up for this, go for it, but if you want to tell me to grow up because of something I've said in this thread, get bent.

And if you're really going to neg me, at least have the audacity to leave your name.