[Neo Necron]

I saw Spiderman 3 yesterday, and as a person who's been a Spider-Fan his entire life, I really enjoyed the film.
I got home soon after, looked online to see what the critics thought, and was rather annoyed. Here's some of the comments they came up with, and what I have to say to them:

#POSSIBLE SPOILER WARNING#

'Evil' Spiderman was not as evil as we'd anticipated - Spider-man with the symbiote was never evil in the comics/cartoons, just more aggressive. The symbiote enhances negative emotions and reduces the breaking point so it's possessee does more irrational things at a sooner point.
If the production team did anything wrong here, it was over-hyping the dark side of Spider-man too much before the film was released.

even then, he just acted like a n00b - That was only for about 5 minutes, and even then, it was mostly to get Gwen into MJ's restauraunt so he could get back at her for leaving, out of the aggression of his alien infestation.

The villains didn't get enough screen-time - I don't know what the critics are talking about here... I thought there was easily enough. It would have been cooler to see more of Venom, but I wouldn't say it wasn't enough. Besides, these films are about Peter Parker and his life as a Superhero more than they're about Spider-man fighting bad guys. There was enough Sandman to learn all here is to know about his character, and it was done very well. We saw a lot of development in Harry Osbourne, and Venom, even though he's not Venom 'till the end of the film, we see him slowly becoming an enemy of Peter Parker. You need a lot of time to do that if you ask me, since you have to show how his hatred develops.
Besides, if the film-makers stuck to the tradition of just 1 super-villain, the critics would all be complaining that Spider-man fighting 1 enemy was getting boring. Critics are never satisfied. Any excuse to slate the third in a series and they will.

Too much sentimental rubbish - Shut up. Seriously. What makes Spider-man one of the greatest superheros, in my opinion, is how he struggles to cope with his life as a Superhero and how it affects his personal life, and how his personal life affects his super-hero life. As Spider-man grows up, his experience grows. Once something becomes a firm part of your life, things are going to affect it much more. More things will happen to make it complicated, and that's what happens in this film.

Too much CGI - C'mon, with enemies like venom and sandman, you NEED CGI. Even then, they may have used a bit too much in battles and such like (Spider-man WAS clearly CGI at some points) but hey, leave them alone. They trued using more CGI. The critics will pick up on it, they won't make that mistake for Spiderman 4. They took a risk (the only way to get ANYWHERE when you're making a film franchise), made a mistake, and they'll learn from it. Standard procedure.

I'm done now. This film was amazing. I don't care what the critics say and I don't care what anybody else says. Good day.

[Walter Sobchak]

I disagree entirely with you.

1. The butler knew about Norman being the Green Goblin, but never told Harry, even though Harry has been obsessed with killing Spiderman?

2. The Sandman gives up at the end? Why did he join Venom in the first place?

3. Venom is supposed to be the arch-enemy of Spiderman, and he got very little screen time.

4. Too many convenient plot points. The symbiote waits to fuse with Peter while the Sandman story develops. Harry is subdued while Spiderman deals with the Sandman. Etc, etc.

It was fun, but the worst of the 3.

[Neo Necron]

The butler probably told Harry nothing because if he knew Norman as well as he said he did, he would have known Norman wouldn't want Harry to know the truth (which he didn't, as we saw at the end of spidey 1), and so he never told him it. When things got really intense, he decided he had to break that loyalty for the greater good.

Originally Posted by Vossler

2. The Sandman gives up at the end? Why did he join Venom in the first place?

again, that's faithfulness to the comics. Sandman was never truely evil, he was always more of an anti-hero. He even properly turned good guy for a while.

Originally Posted by Vossler

3. Venom is supposed to be the arch-enemy of Spiderman, and he got very little screen time.

Where was it ever said Venom was Spiderman's arch-enemy? Just because he's cool, has similar abilties to Spidey and gets lots of fan hype does not make him the arch nemesis. again, people expected too mcuh of venom in this film. If you see a film with 3 villains, don't expect too much from one villain. It's that simple.

Originally Posted by Vossler

4. Too many convenient plot points. The symbiote waits to fuse with Peter while the Sandman story develops. Harry is subdued while Spiderman deals with the Sandman. Etc, etc.

And this isn't true in the first film? Superhero and villain just happening to be created at the very same time? Nobody's complaining about that one. Infcat, films are full of convenient plot turns. Sometimes to get a lot in a film, you need a bit of convenience in there. It happens. Get over it, I say.

[Walter Sobchak]

Originally Posted by Neo Necron

again, that's faithfulness to the comics. Sandman was never truely evil, he was always more of an anti-hero. He even properly turned good guy for a while.

That still doesn't answer the fundamental problem. If he is a good guy, why did he kill police officers and ravage the city in the first place? Further, if the film is supposed to be so faithful to the comics, Gwen Stacey would not be a minor character, and Venom would not have died the way he did. Why couldn't the symbiote come back with Jameson's son, like the animated series? How can they set up Carnage now?

Originally Posted by Neo Necron

Where was it ever said Venom was Spiderman's arch-enemy? Just because he's cool, has similar abilties to Spidey and gets lots of fan hype does not make him the arch nemesis. again, people expected too mcuh of venom in this film. If you see a film with 3 villains, don't expect too much from one villain. It's that simple.

Come on Neo. Venom is to Spider-Man as the Joker is to Batman and Lex Luthor is to Superman. The movie could have set up Venom for the next movie, and deal primarily with Sandman and Harry.

And this isn't true in the first film? Superhero and villain just happening to be created at the very same time? Nobody's complaining about that one. Infcat, films are full of convenient plot turns. Sometimes to get a lot in a film, you need a bit of convenience in there. It happens. Get over it, I say.

You have a point. But what about these?

1. A meteor hits the Earth next to Peter and Mary Jane, and they don't hear it? Impossible.
2. I don't know the exact timeline of the film, but I believe Peter slept more than once before the symbiote finally acted.
3. The doctor said that Harry would have short-term memory loss. If you consider the amount of time between the second and third film (the play that Mary Jane was casted in, the rehearsal times) PLUS the entirety of the second film, PLUS the period of time between the first and second films "short term", I don't know what to say.

Plus, how is wearing mascara evil?

Originally Posted by Neo Necron

The butler probably told Harry nothing because if he knew Norman as well as he said he did, he would have known Norman wouldn't want Harry to know the truth (which he didn't, as we saw at the end of spidey 1), and so he never told him it. When things got really intense, he decided he had to break that loyalty for the greater good.

Maybe, but it sounds like too much rationalizing. In the second film, the butler said something to Harry, like "the only thing your father was obsessed with was work.", when he saw Harry obsessing over newspaper articles. That would be a better time to say something. I found the butler to be a poor Deus Ex Machina that the writers needed to make Harry good.

Once again, I had fun at the movie. But this is nothing compared to the beginnings of Spider-Man in 1 and his identity with who he is in 2.

[LocoColt04]

The following response is loaded with Spidey-Spoilers.

Originally Posted by Vossler

Why couldn't the symbiote come back with Jameson's son, like the animated series? How can they set up Carnage now?

...

The movie could have set up Venom for the next movie, and deal primarily with Sandman and Harry.

Quick note if I could -- if you recall, not ALL of the symbiote was destroyed, and it obviously has the ability to grow at immense rates. Some of the symbiote was still in the lab, sitting under that glass. They could spin that to bring back Venom and then Carnage (and the new, third version of the symbiote whose name currently eludes me -- it's one of the newest comics though). Granted, Venom won't be Brock in the next movie, considering he's dead, but there are always Venom II and Venom III to be considered as well. Sure, it's an alteration from the original storylines, but... eh.

[Bryan 2.0]

First of all, if they brought Carnage into the next film, I'd be incredibly happy.

Before anybody jumps down my throat about what I'm about to say, just hear me out...

I think they could have cast a better actor for the role of Peter Parker than Toby Maguire. Don't get me wrong, he does a great job personality-wise as Peter Parker, but his build is way off. Spiderman wasn't big by any means, Toby Maguire isn't as small as Peter Parker, but this is just my personal opinion...

Onto Venom...

I only have two complaints about Venom:

1. He should have been in the movie longer. They built the hype for him way too much to show him so little. I think the reason for this was because Raimi initially had to be convinced to even put Venom in the third film. He's said that he isn't a big fan of Venom.

I think that after the film was shot, he noticed the huge amount of anticipation that Venom was gathering and did all he could to get people excited about it, yet he didn't have enough footage in the film itself to deliver a satisfying result.

2. How difficult would it have been to give Venom the raspy snake-like whisper of a voice he's always had? When I first saw Venom start speaking and he had the voice of Topher Grace, I was like "what the hell?"

Other than that, I think they should have showed a bit more of why Eddie Brock hated Peter Parker so much. It felt like there was a huge gap that was jumped somewhere along the lines. Eddie Brock's story just seemed sort of rushed, but again, that could have been because Raimi initially didn't want Venom in the film.

[Tifa]

I've tried writing a response to this thread about three times now but each time I get too lazy to make a full argument and response, so I'm mostly going to point out a couple of things I had issues with. (Spoilers, obv.)

* The pumpkin bomb explosion destroyed Venom and Brock (basically incinerated him -- there were no remains), but only minorly scarred Harry? Yeah, right. Continuityyyy~?

* Following that, I'm pretty sure the time frame between the explosion and the fight was short. I'm not a medical expert, but wouldn't Harry's face still be at least red, or dark in some way? (Re: burn wound after two days) His face basically seems to have healed months faster than it should've.

* {Leaving space in here to insert comment about explosions and lungs ... I'll get back to you guys on it, I gotta get my book back from my RA lolz}

Originally Posted by Stiff by Mary Roach, pg149

The shock wave from a bomb wreaks the most havoc on the body's most easily compressed tissue, and that is found in the lungs: specifically, the tiny, delicate air sacs where the blood picks up oxygen and drops off carbon dioxide. An explosive shock wave compresses and ruptures these sacs. Blood then seeps into the lungs and drowns their owner, sometimes quickly, in ten or twenty minutes, sometimes over a span of hours.

* The emo part was absolutely ridiculous and painful to watch. That's all. Oh yeah, and Mary Jane's voice kinda sucked. Lolz.

* Venom didn't scare me. I mostly laughed. Although I would have still liked him to have more screen time. Also, tongue?

* Another thing that got to me about Venom. Basically it seems that it merged with his costume. Wasn't Venom something that completely merged with Peter's being, as opposed to something that could be put on and taken off so easily? And then when he rips the symbiote (sp) off, he's basically naked. Costume goes where?

* The emotional parts were kind of a joke ... the movie didn't really get much to me in terms of heart strings. Lolz. Except for Harry's death, but even then it was kinda weak.

* My friend was complaining about how they changed the Ben Parker scene. Basically it was originally just some random guy who shot him, and then they changed it into a two-person deal with Sandman.

* Speaking of Sandman, I like how the particle accelerator (I'm pretty sure that's it) destroyed everything of the Sandman-- including everything he wore, and yet didn't destroy the locket-- or even the picture inside of it. Makes lots of sense!

* And then what happened to the daughter? I think at least a brief interlude partway through would've been nice, I feel like they just kind of ditched her character-- although the Sandman still had her as his motivation, so that's good I guess. Ehhh ...

* Following that, if it was supposed to be a particle accelerator, they don't look like that -___-;; (Sup thar, physics.)

* Peter kissing Gwen (especially this) and then MJ kissing Harry just made me go wtf. I guess they had to do it, but still. WTF. Peter kissing Gwen especially made no sense at all. Lolz.

Anyway I'm a huge nerd and I look at the smallest, most insignificant things. Those were some of the things that bothered me with this movie ... kind of had to talk to my friend to figure it out, cause it was mostly just a nagging feeling than a solid "hey, that's what was wrong". Overall, good movie, I liked it-- if just for the fight scenes and certain moments. I'd watch it again ... but yeah, some of the praise it gets is overdone.

EDIT; Included the bomb quote.

[LocoColt04]

Originally Posted by Xerox Semblant

Other than that, I think they should have showed a bit more of why Eddie Brock hated Peter Parker so much. It felt like there was a huge gap that was jumped somewhere along the lines. Eddie Brock's story just seemed sort of rushed, but again, that could have been because Raimi initially didn't want Venom in the film.

Ugh, I know... there's SO much more to Eddie Brock than what they opted to show. How many people know that he tried to commit suicide BEFORE his trip to the church? And that Parker was able to shed himself of the symbiote long before it attached itself to Brock? Granted, for the ease of the movie, I understand why they opted to have the symbiote attach itself to Brock right then and there (and I think it worked out quite well, actually), but there was so much of Brock's story that remained untold.

I think there was a bit much going on in this film. It should have either focused on Sandman (who is a legitimate chaotic neutral character who isn't technically a bad guy, so the movie really didn't mess his character up) and Harry's role as the Goblin OR Brock and the symbiote and the creation of Venom... not both stories at once. It was an overload.

[Rydia Lover]

i like dthe movie somewhat but was disapointed in how much they changed the REAL story.

my biggest complaint was VENOM:

-topher grace was by far the worst actor they choose to play eddie. eddie brock was a big guy, almost a body builder and im sorry but no matter how much he works out, topher grace could never get as big as eddie really was. that was the biggest sepperation between venom and spiderman other than the fact that he wore the symbiotic suit was that he was big and strong, but spiderman was small and fast.

-was it just me or did they seem to portrey venom in this movie to be more like carnage than venom? the total insanity, the lust for being evil, and the fact that he was pretty skinny for venom.

- on the note of eddie brock's insanity, he never was. in the comic eddie went to the church to repent because he was planning to commit suicide. he then bonded with the suit in the church. venom was never really all that evil. like the sandman he was a sort of antihero. he saw him self as a hero and had somewhat of self control over the symbiote like spiderman did when he had it. he had a moral consience and neve hurt inocent people. he only wanted revenge on pidey for his humiliation.

-- i really do hope the next movie does start the birth of carnage, he is by far my favorate marvel character all together. or maybe the next movie could ba about the story of "ultimate carnage" and "seperation anxiety" where venom gave birth to five symbiotic brothers and sisters: carnage, riot, phage, lasher, scream, and agony. and there was also the son of carnage named toxin who is really a super hero and not a villan.

[Autumn]

I saw this film last night. My friend had told me it sucked, which was the only reason for me going to the time and trouble of watching it.

Wow, I just hit Ctrl-S. I've been typing too many essays lately.

Okay, I skim read the posts because the thread is "tl;dr". I will probably include film spoilers in my post, so beware.

I was quite looking forward to seeing Venom brutally kill people, but unfortunately he was only created half an hour before the end in what was a 130 or 140 minute film. There wasn't even that much of Sandman. It was mostly dealing with Peter Parker's sad, emotional woes which just got tedious to watch.

Yeah, I read what the OP had to say about too much sentimentality. However, when dealing with standard Hollywood drama, you know what to expect and you know how Peter Parker's life attitude is going to turn out. The execution then becomes crucial to making the movie engaging and I didn't feel this was so. The dialogue ranged from poor to mediocre, just like the acting and while I wasn't expecting scenes to resemble something from a Wong Kar Wai movie, as that would've been inappropriate, the cinematography was very standard. The film took it too far when they spent around 15 minutes portraying symbiote-infected Peter Parker as a cocky and arrogant prick. Who also wears black mascara and would have his hair draped over one eye if only it was slightly longer. Although, despite the dancing, I actually thought Peter Parker's character improved when he was being taken over by evil.

I don't feel like saying anymore and I'm sure other people have covered points I would've.

[saber372]

hmmm.. what points do i wish to approach here?... well lets start off with off with that i thoroughly enjoyed the film.. completely.. my biggest complaint was about mj, she really was self centered, whenever peter tried to draw paralels to his life and struggles to help her all she did was complain about it.. damn lady, i wouldnt help her. that really was my only complaint. the whole symbiote, i thought was as well as can be expected in a two hour film. the same thing with venom, it was obvious that he woudl not get much film time due to lack of building in the previous films. if they were to make it more for venom, the movie would had to have been completely about him, and then it would have been drawn out. besides, anyone who doesnt think that venom will be returning is crazy, we will get our venom fix. the green goblin on the other hand was just about perfectly pulled off, i wish the fight betweem him and spidey would have lasted longer, but again, for that to have been the movie owuld have had to been more focused on him, and that was clearly not the selling point. and with venom, at first venom was hell bent on destroying peter, even at one point catching his parents as bait, so venom definitely had a crazy streak in him for peter at the beginning. it was only after many months did venom decide to change everything and become the lethal enforcer. so him setting up mj the way he did was very venom like. and for carnage, not the next film, maybe 5, and then go maximum carnage with 7..

[Oathkeeper13]

I wanted to see more of Venom. Venom was one of Spiderman's most strongest villians. I didin't think they showed venom enough. The way they made venom was just awesome. But he wasn't in it long enough for me. The fights scenes were awesome. But I think they focuse a little to much on Peter Parkers life. I mean I think it's good that they do that but I think it was a little too slow it needed to up the pace a little bit.

[Raptorg]

hmmm, all of this sounds a bit troubling

Venom was always my favourite Villain, and when i saw he was in this movie, i went loco

but after hearing all this, i'm not that excited anymore tbh...

[Oathkeeper13]

Well it's not bad or anything. It was just lacking a few things. Over all I give it a 8 out of 10 which is not bad. It's just the movies are going in diffrent directions.

[Lethal Seraphim]

Originally Posted by LocoColt04

I think there was a bit much going on in this film. It should have either focused on Sandman (who is a legitimate chaotic neutral character who isn't technically a bad guy, so the movie really didn't mess his character up) and Harry's role as the Goblin OR Brock and the symbiote and the creation of Venom... not both stories at once. It was an overload.

EXACTLY!

I would have opted for the Venom story, myself. Probably for the same reasons that everyone else would offer.

But truth be told, the main thing I noticed that was poor about this movie was the dialogue in certain places.

Yeah, Peter loves Mary Jane, we've f*cking known it for two movies already, yet it's practically the first thing you hear in the third.

That's kind of a poor example on it's own, but I forget the specifics. There were just parts where it seemed like they ran out of things for Peter and Mary Jane to say to each other. The love thing got really old really quick for me. The whole back and forth crap between them in the second movie was enough to make me not want to see anymore of it in the third, but then we had some more of it!

Something my friend pointed out (he's a fan of the comics and such): He said Venom never used the web powers as much as we saw in the movie. It seems like that's all Venom did. He parodied Spiderman's abilities, rather than do a lot of his own stuff like stretching and morphing and such.

And something for the guys who were discussing whether or not Venom was Spiderman's nemesis: Whether he was or wasn't in actuality is kind of moot, because that's exactly how they made him appear in the film. As I said before, he parodied almost all of Spiderman's moves and tricks. The movie made him up to be the antithesis to Spiderman.

Did anyone else throw up a bit in their mouth when Spiderman is showing up for the parade or whatever and he does the entrance right in front of the waving American flag for a moment?

But yeah, it was a nice movie in that it kept me entertained. A bit much going on, but hey, that's okay. I was mainly watching just for the Venom stuff anyway, so I wasn't expecting much from the film. And in my honest opinion, I would have liked to see Peter kill Harry with the bomb instead of just scarring him.

WHICH REMINDS ME! The hospital scene where Harry has amnesia and he says that he'd give his life for his friends was the most piss-poor piece of forshadowing I've ever seen in my life. It made Harry's death at the end so much more trite and cheesy. One of those instances where I felt they could have given the characters something better to say.

Kind of a let-down overall...

[.EcKS.]

i was so stoaked for this movie, like so stoaked!
Venom, Sandman, and harrby becoming the new green goblin(finally)
But i was so dissapointed, the opening 15-20 minutes were amazing, so far i had nto been let down..but this did not last long.
Everyone knows the symbiote came back with peter parker after the secret wars, but i wasnt expecting that to be in the movie.
anywho, lets just cut to the chase, peter parker as a badass.
lets face giving the boy eye liner and giving him a dance sequence isnt exactly badass. now say when he would have been takin out petty criminals he would say laid down some serious overdone pwnage. although i think the sandman fight was pretty sweet.
on too venom, ohhh venom one of my favourite comic book characters, he was badass, big, relentless, and looked freaking amazing.
Now i didnt mind the roll of topher grace casted as eddie brock, i had faith in him pulling off a pretty badass guy, but he just came out as a whimpy kiss ass. even more his story was ****ed up, Eddie was married, for one.
and ya i wont ruin anything but he didnt have enough screen time, ecspecially becuase of venom several new enemies arrived as did like 3 years of story, you cant have carnage, without venom folks.

i'd give it a 4/10....i spent too much time going wtf is going on, and not enough "that was f'n sweet"

[Takishi]

I hated this movie cuz there was just a lot of crying...wtf is that all about? yeah...seeing venom cry...that was....awkward...

[Gang Drama]

Yeah! Spiderman 3! What a movie! IT SUCKS! The Worst part of all Spiderman series ever!
I didn't like it anymore! and I agree with the above poster! alot of crying!! Man!! We supposed to be watching an amazing movie with alot of action! no crying

My rating is 2.5/10