[DragonHeart]

Breaking news - At least 20 dead in campus shootings

(CNN) -- The Virginia Tech police chief said at least 20 people were killed in twin shootings on the Blacksburg campus Monday morning.

"Some victims were shot in a classroom," Chief Wendell Flinchum said, adding that the gunman was dead.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said university President Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."

The attacks mark the worst school shooting incident since 1999 when Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris killed 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado.

A hospital spokeswoman told The Associated Press that 17 Virginia Tech students were being treated for gunshot wounds and other injuries.

Sharon Honaker at the Carilion New River Valley Medical Center told CNN that four patients had been transported there, one in critical condition.

One person was killed and others were wounded at multiple locations inside a dormitory about 7:15 a.m., Flinchum said. Two hours later, another shooting at Norris Hall, the engineering science and mechanics building, resulted in multiple casualties, the university reported.

The first reported shooting occurred at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a co-ed dormitory that houses 895 students. The dormitory, one of the largest residence halls on the 2,600-acre campus, is located near the drill field and stadium.

Amie Steele, editor-in-chief of the campus newspaper, said one of her reporters at the dormitory reported "mass chaos."

The reporter said there were "lots of students running around, going crazy, and the police officers were trying to settle everyone down and keep everything under control," according to Steele.

Kristyn Heiser said she was in class about 9:30 a.m. when she and her classmates saw about six gun-wielding police officers run by a window.

"We were like, 'What's going on?' Because this definitely is a quaint town where stuff doesn't really happen. It's pretty boring here," said Heiser during a phone interview as she sat on her classroom floor.

Student Matt Waldron said he did not hear the gunshots because he was listening to music, but he heard police sirens and saw officers hiding behind trees with their guns drawn.

"They told us to get out of there so we ran across the drill field as quick as we could," he said.

Waldron described the scene on campus as "mayhem."

"It was kind of scary," he said. "These two kids I guess had panicked and jumped out of the top story window and the one kid broke his ankle and the other girl was not in good shape just lying on the ground."

Madison Van Duyne said she and her classmates in a media writing class were on "lockdown" in their classrooms. They were huddled in the middle of the classroom, writing stories about the shootings and posting them online.

The university is updating its 26,000 students through e-mails, and an Internet webcam is broadcasting live pictures of the campus.

The shootings came three days after a bomb threat Friday forced the cancellation of classes in three buildings, WDBJ in Roanoke reported. Also, the 100,000-square-foot Torgersen Hall was evacuated April 2 after police received a written bomb threat, The Roanoke Times reported.

After the Monday shootings, students were instructed to stay indoors and away from windows, police at the university said.

"A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows," read a warning from the university.

"Virginia Tech has canceled all classes. Those on campus are asked to remain where they are, lock their doors and stay away from windows. Persons off campus are asked not to come to campus," a statement on the university Web site said.

So, in light of yet another school shooting tragedy, do you think the US should use this as an opportunity for tougher gun control and higher safety standards at schools and the public in general?

~DragonHeart~

[Sinister]

I know. I saw the headline. I didn't want to believe it. Not again.
Why would someone do that...

I don't know what to say. I can't think. 21 students. People just like me, trying to get started around the harder obstacles of cultivating a life and a career.

I don't understand it.

[DragonHeart]

Unfortunately, the death toll is rising. It stands at 32 now. The high winds from the storm prevented helicopters from airlifting the critically wounded to hospitals. This is...I don't even have words for this. Something needs to be done, that's for damn sure. I can't wrap my head around this.

What the hell is wrong with this country? Ugh.

~DragonHeart~

[Mistress Victoria]

No. More like bullet control. It's the bullets that do the killing, not the guns. If the price of ammunition went up 1.000 fold, then there would be no innocent bystanders, you know? But then again...

Anyway. Some say this is a major event in the world that has a huge shocking value. But not to me. To me, this is...

Columbine #3. Albeit slightly different from the Columbine setting. It still falls under the Columbine "genre". >.>;

I know that may sound a bit harsh, but that's all it really is. It's terrible what happened, but I can't say I'm really surprised, with how the world is lately.

Violence like this is always a bad thing to hear about and see, but that doesn't mean it has to be shockingly surprising either.

[DragonHeart]

Well just for some perspective, this is the worst rampage-killing in the history of the United States, and the second worst in the entire world. Such a catastrophic failure of public safety is not "just another Columbine".

President Bush will be making a statement at 4:15est - I'm waiting to see what he has to say on this. Hopefully it'll be worth hearing. I want to see a gameplan for dealing with this.

Oh, and the theoretical motive for all this carnage? He was looking for his girlfriend, presumbly to kill her. He killed 30+ other people instead.

~DragonHeart~

Jesus Christ. That's completely terrible.

In saying this, I don't mean to preach; but take a leaf from the UK's book. I know it's an almost impossible ask considering the attitudes of NRA members and such, but firearms must be banned before this kind of thing will stop. There are hardly any gun murders here, less rampages. I hope your country can find some way of protecting itself by banning personal firearms.

I wish I was shocked by this. I am most certainly appalled; but after Columbine, the recent mall shootings and other such 'rampages', I'm not quite taken aback. It's saddening, more than anything.

[Yuki-onna]

Originally Posted by Great Writer Urumi

No. More like bullet control. It's the bullets that do the killing, not the guns. If the price of ammunition went up 1.000 fold, then there would be no innocent bystanders, you know?

Ah yes...Chris Rock has a strong point of view there.

I think it could seriously be done though...people would have to save up a lotta money to be able to "bust a cap in one's ass".

[Tiffany]

That sphiel by Chris Rock is hilarious. "You lucky boy! Imma go to the bank, take out a loan, and bust a cap in yo ass" hehehehe.

In all seriousness though, what happened there is absolutely awful. I'll never understand what is wrong with people!

[Silver]

I doubt gun control being raised would help much. Bans might though. If any Australian killed a bunch of people with a gun, chances are it would have been obtained via black market. And that crap seems to be isolated to bigger areas such as certain parts of Sydney and the like. Victims tend to be scum themselves, or good people who've gotten into the wrong things usually. By scum I mean gangs, criminals and the like.

Anyway I doubt gun control would work over there as if someone wanted to kill someone badly enough, they'd still go through the trouble of aquiring a firearm and at least with the laws as lax as they supposedly are, there's a chance you'd get a good nut with a gun as well as a bad one. Making them harder to get might mean less people willing to take the law into their own hands, for the right cause.

BTW, if you think this incident's bad, check this out,
http://www.columbinegame.com/

It's supposed to be art, but I don't particularly like it very much....

[Walter Sobchak]

What is so disgusting about this incildent is the lack of response by the police. After two people were killed, the guy was roaming the campus two hours later. Campus police, as well as local authorities, should have been everywhere.

Gun control would not solve the problem, people can still get guns. If more people had guns, this would not have escalated the way it did. Here at UCF, the late-night crew is students being paid minimum wage, and armed with a flashlight. If someone wanted to come into my Hall and kill everyone, they could. No problem. The nearest police are on the other side of campus.

You are going to see major renovations in school security, on all levels. The fact that the man was a twenty-something non-Muslim means that all college students will be under intense scrutiny. Its a freedom we have to lose, unfortunately.

[Darth Cidious]

"If more people had guns, this would not have escalated the way it did."

Exactly. School Security should consist of trained and armed personnel such as retired policeman. Statistics prove that in area's where the second amendment has not been perverted violent crime is substantially lower than in area's with strict gun control laws. If the criminals know that you have the means to kill them if they try anything stupid they stay away. Makes perfect sense. The only people who will be affected by strict gun control will be the honest citizens who actually obey the laws.

Drugs are illegal and look how many people find it not only easy to find and use them but make a fortune by selling them. How many millions of illegal immigrants do we have in the U.S.A right now? Have the laws stopped them from coming to our country?

Laws only effect those willing to be bound by them in matters such as these and gun control is no different. People waking and demanding that the asinine "protection" our children are afforded at these schools be changed is the answer to the problem.

[Acheron]

Originally Posted by Vossler

What is so disgusting about this incildent is the lack of response by the police. After two people were killed, the guy was roaming the campus two hours later. Campus police, as well as local authorities, should have been everywhere.

Virginia Tech actually has some of the best campus police in the nation and there was no "lack of response". Both the police and campus police were doing what they could to make sure the perimeter was somewhat controlled, remember all they had to go on was random reports of a gunman and random gunfire. They handled this matter with professionalism and skill, despite what you may think and how were they to predict that something else would happen two hours later? The only knock on this whole situation should go towards how the rest of the campus was warned, which was via email and not towards the men and women who did thier best to protect the rest of the campus.

With that said, it's a god damn shame that this had to happen because it didn't. As for more gun control, banning guns, that really wouldn't do anything because if people want something bad enough, they'll be able to find it here in America. It's just a horrible event, one that now puts alarm into me again, it happened once when I was in school during Columbine and now that I'm in college, yay more things to worry about.

[Sinister]

It's all very easy to shout "gun control" and to tell the legislators to fire at will.

But the majority of people who own guns are not lunatics that shoot up schools. So taking away guns from that stable majority is not going to save us from the unstable majority.

It will only end up making those that have guns all the more powerful. Don't kid yourself in to thinking that it would be that easy. If it were then I would sign/vote for any measure that limits guns or takes them away.

But in the end it's just not all that big of a factor. Do you think that if we had gun control that this lunatic would have said to himself: "Well there's nothing I can do to these people...I don't have a gun."

The problem isn't guns, it's America. Somehow this violent meme has krept into this barrel of apple pies and is ruining the batch.

America is just like it always has been; too many problems and too few solutions...


EDIT: BTW I think it is a time for me to change my avatar... I guess in the end...I too, exhibit that same infective meme...

[Nin`]

Darth Cidious, I don't know where you found your information. Societies that have strict gun laws seem to be doing much better than those that don't in an awful lot of ways. Violent crime being one of them. Perhaps you will attempt to support your assertion. Try to choose a potentially tainted statistical source not put together by the NRA or equivalent.

As for another "Homeland Insecurity" job for people with guns, consider that schoolchildren are much more likely to die of flu or bee stings than of shootings. Perhaps appointing Doctors and apiarists would make more sense. This is another emotional response, like that engendered by 911, on which, based on any realistic threat appraisal, we shouldn't be spending a brass farthing (and actually, till we give up the so called "war on drugs" we probably couldn't afford to).

What this country needs are much fewer laws, much fewer police and much fewer angry people. Not more visible thugs creating a climate where violence is perceived as routine institutionalizing the problem.

Regards,

Nin

[Darth Cidious]

As I said the statistics, last time I checked, are out there for anybody to look up and evaluate. You pick the sources and ones that you think are accurate and I'll pick mine. And yes, I do support the NRA and have been a proud member for many years.

Point of fact, the area where this act of murder occurred is an area that is "gun free" and the laws didn't do a damn thing to prevent it.

Darth Cidious, guns are banned where I live. We have had only one gun tragedy in our history, the Dunblane Massacre, where a gunman killed seven primary school children. It was horrific, and happened about a decade ago.

Guns are available; but yet, the gun killing rates here are tiny compared to yours, proportionally speaking. Guns are easy enough to find, but they're not so easily available that the public at large is in danger. The only metal detectors we have are in airports and police stations. I hadn't heard of 'lockdown drills' in schoolsm before yesterday.

[Silver]

I believe that Darth Cidious's view is actually quite valid. Sure ares with strict gun control are usually safer, but if an area has been saturated with 'gun culture' (only name I could think of ), then people are going to get their hands on guns any way they can. Guns are controlled quite well in Australia, but in the capitals it can be quite easy to aquire a firearm illegally due to the 'culture' there and the ol' blackmarket.

So yeah, if stricter laws are pressed in an area, don't you guys think it'll just stop some law abiding defenders from getting their weapons as opposed to the nuts who'd do most anything to inflict harm on others for whatever reason?

Just the scenarios going through my booze riddled head....

[Chez Daja]

This was a tragic event. Apparently, the gunman left a note explaining his emotions, going deeply into a past tense, with the line "you made me do all this"... "you", seemingly referring to his ex girlfriend, who began dating another guy.

It was said that he was looking for her, but packed up ammunition for a massacre. It makes me wonder how long he'd been planning this to have had the so-called "Godly amount of ammunition" that he'd been said to have carried.

Worst of all, it took the police hours to respond fully to the situation. As if the first two shooting meant nothing. I'm angry at the police for neglecting to react to the problem quicker. Lives could've been saved, and the gunman arrested and given life in jail.

Technically, because he was Korean and living in America, it would've (SHOULD'VE) been virtually impossible legally for him to buy firearms from American arsenals. Supposedly, he'd been living in the country since he was eight, though, so perhaps that made some difference.

However it was shown on the news how easy it is to purchase weaponry from American citizins. What makes me sick, is the money grubbing wankers who sell of weaponry to people without question, without permit and license, and do it solely for their own personal gain of a cash pay-off from their customers.

It's so easy to obtain licences that it's not even worth getting one. The amount of American's that own guns and take into vigilantism is so high that it'd be pointless to ban guns in the country. Sure, we could stop the flow, but we'd still have millions being sold under the nose of the government in underground deals.

My question is; how much does the American government consider a "Godly amount" of ammunition?

No matter where you come from, people have NO LOGICAL RIGHT to own a firearm, let alone an aresenal. I understand self defense, but this is taking it way too far. If America had just banned guns like they did in England, we wouldn't have seen such a tragedy. I'm not saying he wouldn't have obtained a weapon, or the gun, but it definately wouldn't have been easy enough to have been worth doing.

What bothers me, is that the gunman's creative writing teacher had deemed his work "troubled" and suggested he visit the campus counseller. He was, apparently a loner. If all of this was true, should they not have pursued trying to get in contact, or trying to help? Why was he allowed to walk around the campus in an unstable condition?

Students need to be checked for all this stuff. They're whining about how it's a bitched to have their stuff checked, but it's better to be checked and safe, rather than unchecked and dead.

What's so sad, is that I doubt anythings' going to change now, even though 32 people have been murdered and others injured.

[Andromeda]

And Jack Thompson is already on top of this shouting about video games being the cause of this. The guy needs a life other than making money off of incidents like this. He was saying something about the shooter owning lke 52 FPS games. As a couple at work commented, they had that many as well. Guess that makes them the next person to go on a rampage.

I don't know what they can really do about guns at this point. Having some recall is not going to fix the problem. Anyone will just hide it in some place and they will still be out there. I don't know if it can really be enforced that well at this point. I don't even think that it is America really, its the human being themselves. The government doesn't control people's emotions and mental state. People are free to choice what they want to do. Unless you are bound by chains or ropes or something you are free to do anything. Even in an oppression dictatorship, people just choose not to do anything because they don't want to die or hurt. It is still a choice they are making, even if it is based on fear.

A person is going to hurt someone if they are angry. If they are mentally ill, well that is adding in more variables. But the crimes of passion or whatever at typically sane individuals that get pushed too far, stressed out or whatever the factor is. Though is does come down to emotions, sane people will do stupid and crazy things if they are emotional. And that is being human. So blame the human state or person, however you wish. Guns are not the ones that kill, its the person that pulls the trigger.

If that guy did not have a gun to kill his girlfriend with he would have pulled out the kitchen knife or the hammer from the tool set. If he really wanted to kill her he'd find a substitute weapon. And we cannot go banning anything that's a weapon. A pencil is a deadly weapon in the right hand and wounding even in a poor man's hand. We wouldn't get the rampages, yes, but there would still be a person dead.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by Andromeda

And Jack Thompson is already on top of this shouting about video games being the cause of this. The guy needs a life other than making money off of incidents like this. He was saying something about the shooter owning lke 52 FPS games. As a couple at work commented, they had that many as well. Guess that makes them the next person to go on a rampage.

Quick every one, let's stone him with the covers of our FPS video games!

That Jack Thompson is a few discs short of a compilation if you ask me.
If anything I think that violent shooters are either 'unstable' in some way, or they just want some attention like our 'good friend' Jack Thompson. And the publicity he gets for being an advocate of some censorship committee is just another example of much attention a guy can get for being a weirdo, even if it's not a gun toting one.