[postalblowfish7]

So i've been trying to play through all 12 core series final fantasy games in order on the original systems they were intended to be on. I had a few NES carts hacked with fan translated versions of FFIIj and FFIIIj put on them to compliment my FFI that i already had on the NES. It took me probably longer than it should have, but i've finally beaten FFI, FFII, and FFIII on the NES.

I decided the FFIV EasyType that is FFII in america should not be what i play next. I wanted to experience the jump from 8 to 16 bit with all the glory that a Japanese person must've felt when FFIV was first released. I chose the PSX version from FF Chronicles as I feel it's the closest to the super famicom version. I will not be using the run button. Here are my impressions.

WOW. First off - the music. The familiar prelude rolls by with a much rounder sounding harp synth, and then BAM - string harmonies flowing over it. The NES was never able to pull off anything this grand. Then I start playing. First off, this game is a lot like FFIIj. A LOT. Demonic empires, resistances, friends turning evil, even the geographical layout of the lands is reminiscent. Cecil from FFIV and Richard from FFIIj have have identicle menu picts as well (as attached). Those type of menu pictures haven't been used at this point since FFIIj. It's also super super story heavy - another thing that FFII was and FFI and FFIIIj were not. Also, Tellah is a dead ringer for Minwu from FFIIj. They're both super powerful white mages you get early on in the game (although Tellah has all that bitchin black magic too). The music also has the same feel to it - the boss music especially is easy to parallel between the two games.

I think the two games are meant to be akin to each other. They even both have a Mysidia! So yeah, the connections between these two games already give me a sense of nostalgia - even though i'm being completely blown away by the graphics and sound. It's not perfect though. Yes, it is sweet that battles don't just take place on a black field with a band of sprites above them - it's cool they stand on textures now. But they are very low quality textures. There's definitely a whole lot of room for graphical improvement. Granted this game was the first FF in 16-bit, you can tell it definitely still had one foot in the NES door. It still feels like an NES final fantasy - just on speed. I've just returned to Baron as a paladin, so i still have the majority of the game to go - but i'm really looking forward to see where this whole thing goes!

Anyone else notice all the similarities between FFIIj and FFIV?

UPDATE: Ok, now i'm about to do to the Underworld. Up to this point there are a few more connections with FFIIj that i've made. Richard the dragoon from FFII and Kain, the dragoon from FFIV, both share the same last name Highwind. There is NO WAY that this is merely coincidence. Hironobu Sakaguchi had been in charge of every final fantasy game up to this point - it's perfectly believable that he clearly meant FFIIj and FFIV to have taken place in the same world - during different epochs perhaps. If this is indeed the case than I believe that FFIV would be a prequel to FFIIj. Any thoughts?

[Final Fanatic]

Very intersting, but FFIV has cristalls and FFIIj doesn't.
What happend to them?
Appart from that it seems possible.
I mean, if there were cristals in FFIIj, they would be of some importance to the story dont u think?

[NED]

Both have an evil empire hellbent on corrupting the masses with a not so shabby airship name.

Oh, there's a dragoon in there too.

[Dawezy]

"FFIV is a prequel to FFIIj"

I ... somewhat doubt you there, mate. There was a near 3-year gap inbetween the release of FFII and IV so if there is any relation to the two it'd be in reverse ~ being FFII is a prequel to FFIV. But then again that being said I fail to see how they interlink.. o_o as for the name things its becoming more of a common theme;

Names and references being recycled, maybe at the time they didnt have anything new they could toss on the character board so they used Highwind again.. Hmm. Hell, in FFXII a horde of the item names are back from FFIV lol its funny.

[Rasler]

I actually have a theory concerning that.

Richard dies in battle by sacrificing himself to save the party from the demonized Emperor Palamecia. In certain non-dumbed-down versions of FFIV, Kain makes mention of his father. He says that he trained to be a dragoon, just like his father. He also mentions that his father died in battle.

In FFIV, Kain is found by King Baron as an orphan. We are left with the question, "How did Kain's mother die?" I assume she died in the undisclosed time between FFIIj and FFIV. The Emperor had been defeated, leading to the dissolution of the empire. One would assume that new kingdoms would be established, and would logically wage war against each other. The worl d has been slightly reshaped due to warfare. A bit of time passes, and Baron is the supreme military state due to its unstoppable air supremacy. Which is essentially where FFIV begins.

However, this theory is only valid if the worlds of FFIIj and FFIV are one and the same.

[Final Fanatic]

WHAT ABOUT THE CRYSTALS?
...doesn't that count?

[Rasler]

Well, the crystals are a large discepency...

Perhaps they existed in FFIIj, but were obscure and played no role in the story.

[Final Fanatic]

But something as powerfull as the crystalls would certanlly be coveted by a powerfull empire like the one in FFII

[Rasler]

Well...No.

The crystals themselves have no offensive power. They lend no advantage to their controller. This is why it confused Cecil as to why Baron was collecting them.

The Giant of Babil was never mentioned, and the Dwarves who hold the dark crystals were never mentioned or encountered in FFIIj.

If there is some connection, the most likely justification of the crystal discrepency is that they were not worth collecting or were simply kept secret.

These secrets would be kept by the Mysidian people who inhabit both FFIIj and FFIV. It wasn't until late in FFIV that the function of the crystals was even explained. They are merely couriers for the Giant of Babil.

[Final Fanatic]

Interesting....
That giant of babil stuff...
U should have put that in a spoiler tag, I'm beating the game for the first time now...
Oh well don't say more....

[TomStrife]

I think that you have a good theory to present, but a lot of FF games involve stories that have a small band of good guys fighting an evil Empire.

Also, using your logic, it would be assumed you would believe that Cid from FFVII is a far descendant of Richard and Kain.

Am I correct?

Either way, II and IV have close ties, but I don't think they take place in the same world.

[Final Fanatic]

This actually makes sense, but the world maps are tottally diferent, does someone have some pics they can post here?
It would be nice to compare.

[Rasler]

I was actually going to do that. Gamefaqs usually has overworld game maps. I was going to copy them, paste into photoshop, add transparency, and overlap them. I'll edit this post when I'm done.

-edit- No signifigant overlaps occured. The world maps were different sizes, so I made them the same size, overlapped them, rotated them, and flipped them. Nothing lined up. I removed the oceans so that it'd be easier to see any overlaps.

However, I seem to have already come up with an argument for this discrepency:

Originally Posted by Wyatt Arkham

The Emperor had been defeated, leading to the dissolution of the empire. One would assume that new kingdoms would be established, and would logically wage war against each other. The world has been slightly reshaped due to warfare. A bit of time passes, and Baron is the supreme military state due to its unstoppable air supremacy. Which is essentially where FFIV begins.
However, this theory is only valid if the worlds of FFIIj and FFIV are one and the same.

FFIIj''s map could be smaller because it happens a decent bit before FFIV, and FFIV is rather medieval, so less of the world would've been mapped in FFIIj.

I am not presenting anything as fact, it's just a fun little theory I have.


Oh, before I forget, there's also a theory that FFVII and FFX are the same world.*sigh* -_-

[Final Fanatic]

There's no similarity in the worlds, what a shame...
What is this FFVII and FFX theory?

[postalblowfish7]

Originally Posted by Rasler

Well, the crystals are a large discepency...

Perhaps they existed in FFIIj, but were obscure and played no role in the story.

the crystals (or ORBs as they are called in the NES versions of FFI and FFII) are at the top of the ultima tower... sealing the ultima scroll. that's a pretty big role. in fact, i think you have to talk to them or something...

regarding the world map, i have a theory on this as well. final "fantasy" right? so what if each game is the telling of a tale long past... and since it is the telling of a story, details like the shape of continents might be rendered in the mind of the storyteller/the audience of ancient gia'ans listening around some cabin in a long lost overworld of reality....

to clarify - each 'final fantasy' is indeed just that. a fantasy - even though many stories take place on the same world, the continental shapes are arbitrary as they are left to the imagination of whomever is recalling the tale. i'm still convinced that FFIV was made intentionally with the events of FFII in mind.

oh and, FFVII and FFX are CONFIRMED BY SQUARE to be connected. there's an interview with motomu toriyama somewhere detailing how FFX was a distant prequel to FFVII - although the games take place on different planets. but that's a subject for another thread

[Vawn]

I've always noticed the similarities between these two games as well. However, I can't believe they are suppose to have taken place in the same world. Even in the FFIVA where there is a child named Kain who is related (somehow) to Ricard the dragoon it makes no sense to say this is the same Kain from FFIV. First of all, that name was only given to him during the GBA release to make people wonder.

If they were the same worlds and this kid is the same Kain Highwind, how in the world did everything change in such a short period of time. Every single nation is gone (unless you want to believe the two Mysidias are the same). Everyone from FFII died? The entire structure of the planet's continents changed during the time Kain grew up?

Its not a direct sequel. The similarities are between all final fantasy games. These two are just more strongly tied than others. Here are some similarities I noticed between the two:

* A dragoon with the last name Highwind (as mentioned FFVII could share this if you assume lance-weilding Cid Highwind is a dragoon)

* The party gets attacked by Leviathan while on a ship

* A mage kills himself by casting the game's 'ultimate' spell (Ultima in FFII and Meteor in FFIV)

* Someone very close to the main character turns traitor, but later rejoins the hero

* Through a large part of the game an evil empire is threatening the world and a small group of warriors take it upon themselves to stop them (by the way we call a game with this as the main story 'Final Fantasy')

* Dark Knights are seen as a powerful, but consumed by evil

[Rasler]

Well, yes. There are recurring motifs in each game.

I was merely drawing connections and trying to fit together pieces from two separate puzzles. FFIV has a high number of coincidental similarities with FFII, but they are in fact, unrelated.

We've already reached that conclusion.

[postalblowfish7]

Originally Posted by Rasler

Well, yes. There are recurring motifs in each game.

I was merely drawing connections and trying to fit together pieces from two separate puzzles. FFIV has a high number of coincidental similarities with FFII, but they are in fact, unrelated.

We've already reached that conclusion.

yeah, but it's so much fun to pretend there is a connection

i guess it's like the old "mommy, why didn't they use a pheonix down on aeris?" debate. obvious answers, but a rat-maze of intellectual hobnobbery awaiting those who'd like to wax about anything that they're that into.