Elitism

[Angantyr]

Perhaps a discussion for the ID forum but I think it is best suited here...

Anyway I have always been confused at peoples hatred towards Elitism, is it cause people are lazy and no longer enjoy quality? Or are they afraid they can not met their standards? Personally I have nothing against it and am somewhat myself, the people who go on it sound kind of like crybabies to me at times, I mean its understandable but the way some people react to it pisses me off at times.

[Chez Daja]

Elitism doesn't really bother me so much, because I let it brush passed me. I have better things to do than get pissy because somebody thinks I have shit taste of something.

It pisses me off when people act superior, but it also pisses me off when people cry on and on about it. People who have a problem just shouldn't listen to elitists in the first place if they can't deal with whatever is said.

The public are too sensitive to simple words these days.

I don't really pay attention for the most part. I guess the whole thing just annoys me. People who preach shit, and people who take shit.

I'm not saying all chaos and anarchy should break out, but... eh. People need to learn not to listen to people who just spout crap about other things. If the world was all like that, it'd be a giant slsk chatroom.

[.EcKS.]

I personally am not the biggest fan of elitism.
IMO it promotes ignorance and arrogance.
I understand how easy it is th fall into that category, i would say im prone to be a snob occasionally myself. But all in all, i think we could surely do without.
Being open minded to somethin you may not neccesarilly like never hurt no body, ecspecially when it comes to music.
c.

[MrDomino]

I have to side with Ecks on this one. It something that really isn't necessary. If someone has something that absolutely needs to be said, the least that could be done is showing a bit of common decency and respect. Elitists often come off as very arrogant, and from my travels on the internet, most are also just all around jerks, which is the worst part.

Like Ecks said, it's just not needed. Elitism is an inflammatory attitude to take into a conversation, and when someone is trying to have a civilized conversation or debate over the internet (or in real life, for that matter) the extra agitation and stress brought about by it isn't needed.

It is possible to add to a conversation and express your opinion on the matter, no matter how contradictory it may be, without putting everyone down by implying that you're just better than they are.

[Angantyr]

Valid points however I do not feel it leads to ignorance as people who claim Elitism are much more informed in the matter than those who have no idea what they are about. Also Elitism leads to much more off an appreciation than the ones who just chose to follow what is steadily available.

Also it is not just limited to music, there is a lot of people here who prefer Old School games, like all the people who go on about how much FFVI is better than FFVII... is that not a form of Elitism? I would say the people who say that know just where we are coming from. I too grow tired of people constantly worshiping mediocre bands when there is so much better stuff out there but they chose not to because it is not "Accessible" or something... you know how people always go on about the Graphics? It is the same for me with the recording quality, some bands just have a much better feel to it when it sounds like you recorded it from an Answering machine.

The arrogance as you like to put, at least my opinion comes from the worshiping of stuff that is rather overrated, at first it is nothing but when you constantly hear about something when it feels mediocre at best to you it grows to be quite tedious and annoying. Also most of the time (not always) the opinion that is expressed is shared by many hence why it becomes "Elite" in the first place.

I guess I just find the "I will listen to what ever I want though secretly I have not clue what you are on about" kind of attitude annoying. At the same time I not really the type to say "Such and such band sux" though I tend to just say they are weak and suggest them a band that sounds better in my view then they get all pissy about it when you are just trying to help.

[MrDomino]

Originally Posted by Winter

Valid points however I do not feel it leads to ignorance as people who claim Elitism are much more informed in the matter than those who have no idea what they are about. Also Elitism leads to much more off an appreciation than the ones who just chose to follow what is steadily available.

That statement is wholly opinion, and is really quite unverifiable. Though it is usually possible to discern when someone knows what they're talking about, and when they're just BS-ing, whether or not they act elitist has nothing to do with it. And it is possible to enjoy something without sounding like a holier-than-thou jerk about it. Elitism is not a by-product of whether or not a person enjoys or feels strongly about what he/she is talking about, it stems from that persons personality.

Now, in regards to music, remember: Just because a band is unknown, it does not make them good. Much of the elitism I see is about music. People go gaga over some of these indie bands, and then get all high and mighty when they talk to someone who hasn't heard of them. Sure, you may think they're good, and if you do, try to help other people find them, rather than being an elitist jerk. However, that's just my humble opinion on the matter.

Originally Posted by Winter

Also it is not just limited to music, there is a lot of people here who prefer Old School games, like all the people who go on about how much FFVI is better than FFVII... is that not a form of Elitism?

Well, to me, no, not at all! Everyone is entitled to an opinion, whether it is contradictory to mine or not. It all boils down to the person making the post, really. If he/she decides to post like an elitist, talking down to people and making insults for no reason other than someone else's opinion, then yes, that's definitely elitism. Otherwise, I just see the differing of opinions as healthy discussion.

Originally Posted by Winter

I would say the people who say that know just where we are coming from. I too grow tired of people constantly worshiping mediocre bands when there is so much better stuff out there but they chose not to because it is not "Accessible" or something... you know how people always go on about the Graphics? It is the same for me with the recording quality, some bands just have a much better feel to it when it sounds like you recorded it from an Answering machine.

This blurb here, I feel, is purely your opinion. And, just like you, everyone is permitted to their own opinion. Sure, those bands may be 'mediocre' to you, but perhaps they truly enjoy them, as much as you enjoy the bands you listen to. Just because they like something different is no reason to talk down to them.

Originally Posted by Winter

The arrogance as you like to put, at least my opinion comes from the worshiping of stuff that is rather overrated, at first it is nothing but when you constantly hear about something when it feels mediocre at best to you it grows to be quite tedious and annoying. Also most of the time (not always) the opinion that is expressed is shared by many hence why it becomes "Elite" in the first place.

Again, to you it may be overrated, mediocre, or just plain horrible. But, someone likes it, and they shouldn't be chastised for it. Why bother? Talking down to them isn't going to do anything but make them feel bad and not like you. If you truly feel like they have bad taste, then give them a bit of stuff that you like! Maybe they'll like it too. If so, great. If not, it's their choice, not yours.

For example, I absolutely abhor country music. Can't stand it, at all. But you know what? Lots of people do like it. What am I supposed to do? Be a jerk to every last person just because of a personal preference? What, exactly, would I gain from it?

Originally Posted by Winter

I guess I just find the "I will listen to what ever I want though secretly I have not clue what you are on about" kind of attitude annoying. At the same time I not really the type to say "Such and such band sux" though I tend to just say they are weak and suggest them a band that sounds better in my view then they get all pissy about it when you are just trying to help.

Well, put it this way. There will ALWAYS be someone or something out there who annoys you. That's just a fact of life. Sadly, the most you can do about is just deal. Shrug it off, take what the person says with a grain of salt, whatever. If you let every little thing get to you, heck, you'd go mad.

Well, I would, anyway. . And, of course, all of the above is just more of my personal views on life.

[OmniTense]

The best points in this thread seem to have already been made.

But I offer one:

Consider that Elitism is not Elitism but arrogance and personal tastes mixed with contemplation on a particular subject.

Thus:

If I think that Carrots grown in sand have a bitter taste and a gritty texture compared to carrots grown in sod. Because loam grown has a sweeter flavor due to the variety of minerals available to the plant during the development of it's biennial taproot. All of that may have a scientific basis and a well-thoughtout reason. It is still based on personal preference. Immanuel Kant, in his Critique of Practical Reason, tells us that enjoyment of a stimulus whether enjoyed through ignorance or of some higher understanding is enjoyment nonetheless. No enjoyment is more valid than another. Though it is true that exposure to knowledge may put you in a position to enjoy in more detail.

[Angantyr]

Oh dear me! That has to be one of the most annoying posts I have ever read, LITERALLY! How dare you say this is just my opinion, that is so unfair I am allowed to say some what ever I want and it is completely valid, you are just a big meanie ;__;

*Cough*

I think perhaps you should look up Elitism, you seem to have a rather delusional idea that it suggests Arrogance and ignorance. I find it rather odd how you just say these are my opinions cause Elitism being what it is, many fellow Elitists would agree the above.

Anyway you noticed why so many crappy bands exist? Why there is nothing worth watching on Television these days? Why iPod sells so well even though there are much better mp3 players out there that are much more user friendly than the rest? It is because the masses of the world population will eat up anything you put in front of them, if more people where to look for the best rather than what is just steadily available then the companies would be forced to make better products. We could enjoy the stability of Linux and not have to put up with all the switching around process.

I guess to some degree I am quite the Elitist and it feels good I tell ya, I have listened to both In Flames and <Insert band you do not know of here> thus I can form an opinion of both and decide which is better, and if many people have done the same and agree with my opinion then generally it is an Elite Band, hell I feel ignorant for how you got ignorance out of this

[Jin]

Perhaps you should explain what you mean by "elitism", Winter. Personally, when the word is said, I think of a scenario such as "Otakus are elitist pricks" or "That TFF music forum is full of intolerant elitists"; and these scenarios indeed relay arrogance and a general intolerance of other people's opinions.

If, by elitism, you simply mean people who are above average in certain fields of knowledge, then I don't really think that many people have a problem with them, other than a few that may be jealous. When most people say that they dislike elitism, I am fairly confident that they are referring to those who either know or think they know a lot about a certain subject and feel the need to arrogantly display their knowledge in an attempt to show how much more knowledgable they are than everyone else, via means of insults and other such put downs. The only exception to this is perhaps the conservative claim of the "liberal elite", although from their perspective, they may indeed fall under the arrogance catagory.

[MrDomino]

Originally Posted by Jintatsu

When most people say that they dislike elitism, I am fairly confident that they are referring to those who either know or think they know a lot about a certain subject and feel the need to arrogantly display their knowledge in an attempt to show how much more knowledgable they are than everyone else, via means of insults and other such put downs.

That is the elitism I'm referring to, nothing else. Arrogance, disrespect, and insults in an attempt to flaunt one's own personal knowledge.

To address the first post in the thread, I'd say people dislike elitism because it's an unhelpful, disrespectful, and unnecessary tone to take in an otherwise quality discussion. I'd rather this thread not turn into some sort of pissing contest, so I'm going to leave it at that.

[Helter Skelter]

It seems to me that "elitism" is what happens when one's opinion is taken too far; when someone goes beyond stating their opinion and begins to violently and smugly reject every opinion which contradicts theirs. When people get smug about a subject, they begin to condescend. They patronise those who disagree. It's fine to give an opinion either way - to continue the flow of an intelligent argument, or a debate, or any discussion which requires the input of opinions.

But the point is that condescending, patronising, elitist people are nothing more than egomaniacs. If they show so much self-importance, ignorance and absolutely zero empathy, then they might as well be chucked into a looney bin. In my opinion.

[Angantyr]

From what I have read in here I was thinking about it last night and decided I am an Elitist Racist Cunt and damn proud of it. Elitism is not for the masses and is only for the best few thus it is the best in the first place. I do not claim superiority over others and I do recognize my flaws but I want to be the most Elite bastard I can be. I am not an arrogant bastard as a lot of smug idiots tend to be these days which oddly enough them seem to think it comes from people like me.

Thank you for your time, I have realized I am rather content with this attitude for now I hope to further myself within it.

[Jin]

Originally Posted by Winter

I do not claim superiority over others[...]I am not an arrogant bastard as a lot of smug idiots tend to be these days

Originally Posted by Winter

I am an Elitist[...]Elitism is not for the masses and is only for the best few thus it is the best in the first place

You're so cute when you contradict yourself. ^_^

So be it though. Egotism is a perfectly legitimate stance to take, albeit unpopular with those around you. Don't let that stop you though, most people's opinions don't matter; it's your decision.

[Angantyr]

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has them and often they are full of shit.

I am not contradicting myself, I am not the "arrogant bastard" the people are trying to claim I am, I am the arrogant asshole that I dictate myself to be.