Hmmm... Why do so many dark and hardcore or even just "metal" people...

Perdedor · 02-08-2007, 08:16 PM

...Associate themselves with Jesus and God, even if it is just hatred of such?
"Christ-killer"... hmm..... "Anti-christ"... ahem...

I see obsession.

As it is Biblically explained, even demons believe Jesus is the Son of God. They oppose, but they say such anyways.

And why does the alliance have to be in opposition to Christianity? Why can't it merely exist on it's own? Or even be in opposition to something else, really?

Platypi-killer... uh.... Nietzschecide? The Confragulantipotatotonicon... No. Opposition to what is known as "holy".

And such associate themselves with "evil", then turn around and say... "Evil is only an opinion!". Such a "peaceful" lifestyle resembles Islam. Which is purely opposition. Which is reeeeally nerdy.

Discuss.

P.S. Sorry I was banned from ID for hurting Nin' 's feelings.

Gorath Sodom · 02-08-2007, 10:01 PM

Actually, Satan predates Judaism.

He was originally EA/Enki of the Babylonian/Sumerian pantheons (he was the true creator god... and I still believe he is), only thought to be evil after the Jews tarnished his reputation as well as the reputation of many other pagan gods with their lies.

Anyhow, I am a devout Satanist, I give praise and thanks to him for my intellect, college education, and my budding career in computer science.

As for metal, I listen to it because it makes me spiritually closer to our lord and creator Satan and thus it empowers me so with his benevolence and courage.

OmniTense · 02-08-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guts

Actually, Satan predates Judaism.

He was originally EA/Enki of the Babylonian/Sumerian pantheons (he was the true creator god... and I still believe he is), only thought to be evil after the Jews tarnished his reputation as well as the reputation of many other pagan gods with their lies.

Anyhow, I am a devout Satanist, I give praise and thanks to him for my intellect, college education, and my budding career in computer science.

As for metal, I listen to it because it makes me spiritually closer to our lord and creator Satan and thus it empowers me so with his benevolence and courage.

Oookkaaayy *points at Guts* WOOOOooo! j/k

You do know that the etymology of the word "Satan" is (great enemy) doesn't sound like a benevolent force that deserves any special attention to me.

But hell, whatever floats your boat... Tell Ole Scratch I said hello!

Gorath Sodom · 02-08-2007, 10:11 PM

To each his own indeed. I won't judge people for their beliefs, but when people like Perdedor have to put down groups of people (in this case, non-religious metalheads), I can't really contain my rage. I do apologize however if I came off as arrogant, though that was certainly not my intention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perdedor

P.S. Sorry I was banned from ID for hurting Nin' 's feelings.

P.S. Perdedor, I wouldn't worry about you hurting Nin's feelings, he's obviously much more intelligent than you. I weyken the likes of you could never phase him in a debate.

Blacksmith · 02-08-2007, 10:12 PM

What I've come to notice is not how exactly they "associate" with Jesus or God, but more of act like the thing they hate. For example, the metal-loving egotistical guys. If you like anything they don't like they'll insult you one way or another, usually indirectly. Or maybe even the real hardcore guys who jump onto a conclusion that you're weak if you talk about something "holy". I don't know. I never really saw it when I was in the BOD as at least half of them are like what you say. The other half are pretty good people. I laughed though at how they acted towards me after I said a few things that "didn't sit right with them" and I "wasn't evil and hardcore enough". It was like sitting in a circle with a bunch of children really.

I know why they hate christianity though, which are with my own reasons as well. It's really just a movement of rule-loving white collars who are told they shouldn't "associate" with evil things so they blaspheme anything that looks demonic. And I should know being inside a largely based Christian family, ugh. I'm disgusted by their conversations about such things I usually just turn everything off inside my head and nod. I guess it's not really the religion, it's the people in this case. Still, I'm skeptical on the whole God thing. To me the way god is interpreted he's like a child who watches two sets of toy soldiers go at it and see's their lives unfold. Meh, to each his own.

P.S. - Guts/Gorath is a cool guy. I <3 his awesomeness.

Malahk Musashi · 02-08-2007, 10:36 PM

As a staunch Athiest and metalhead, I believe in nothing.

I do not embrace "evil" as you put it (although debauchery and general BoD mischief is quite all right

), nor do I protest the faith of others. I am anti-religion because I do not see it as logical, but I am most certainly not a "Christ-Killer" or an "Anti-Christ".

As for the music-fan stereotype you've offered, Hardcore and (most) Metal are offshoots of Punk Rock which as we all (or at least should) know was the soundtrack of the ultimate modern rebellion against authority. Religion is seen as an authority, and seeing as Metal is more or less the "evil" bastard child of punk rock, it only makes sense.

Angantyr · 02-08-2007, 11:05 PM

Uhhh I highly doubt you hurt Nin`s feelings.

Anyway as Guts said, most of what we believe in predates Judeo-Christianity thus and if anything the Christians are the ones associating with us.

I am somewhat of a Pagan, I share the beliefs of both Celtic Paganism as Asatru of which both pre-date the Christian era and taking 5 minutes to read up on the tales and way of life you can clearly see it was based off those beliefs. Also I am quite interested in the

There are hardly any bands that are "Satanic" per say, of the ones that do most are genuine crap where as sometimes there is the odd case of bands like Deathspell Omega who's lyrical content deals with Satanism on a Metaphysical level.

But yes most of us people deal with other philosophies than merely just religious doctrines and the like. Right now I am listening to some Ukrainian National Socialist Black Metal which deals with Ethnic Pride as well as Paganism.

Jin · 02-09-2007, 08:40 AM

Satan was most likely picked up by the Jews during the Babylonian Captivity and was inspired a great deal by Zoroastroanism...or however you spell that. But the term "Satan" is still a Hebrew word. Worshiping any pre Judaic version of Satan (although it wasn't until Christianty that he became a full blown adversary) isn't really Satanism. It's just worshiping a pagan god that was considered evil. For devil worship (monotheistic anyways) to mean anything other than "I like him because he's evil n' stuff", you need the creation story to be true and view Lucifer as the being that freed humanity from ignorance by making Eve eat the apple.

You have to take these members with a grain of salt. Some of them are great people; others are extremely annoying and act like over done rebellious teenagers.

One thing I've noticed is that many "Satanists" seem to feel the need to inform others of that. They go out of their way to express that they are in love with darkness and are indeed evil. They also tend to go out of their way to attack Christianity. It's fine to disagree with something, but I don't understand how someone can be so intolerant as to attack the religion on a general level (meaning not just attacking the fundamentalists) and then complain that Christians opress them. It makes no sense. And don't even get me started on Laveyan Satanism.

Again though, this doesn't go for everyone. Some people genuinely take Satan as a savior of sorts and I can understand that position (as long as you actually believe in him), but too many people these days are utter posers and act as if they're just being satanists to fit in, causing them to sound like 12 year olds.

Edit: Seraith's right though, I've never seen a more elitest place until I stepped into the metal thread here at TFF. That is a scary place to be.

Helter Skelter · 02-09-2007, 10:06 AM

First of all, Perdedor, I like you. You tell things as you see them, regardless of whether some of the squares on this board agree with you.

You'll probably be warned for non-specifically calling people here "nerdy", and I could be warned for agreeing with it. It's a funny idea that anyone should be offended by your post anyway, it just shows how oversensitive some people are.

As far as the topic goes, I think it's a waste of time to put all your energy into saying you're Satanic, evil, the enemy of all things holy, especially when so many people have no idea about what "Satanism" actually is. That goes for me, too. I'm ignorant in such matters, but I know a lot of other people are too. It's simply posing, pretending and acting. Some people go through phases. A lot of people here like heavy metal music, but that doesn't make them self-proclaimed Satanists. There are some who have their particular groups, cliques or clubs surrounding various aspects of what they call 'evil', but I assume it's all in jest, or just an interesting thing to discuss.

My point is that although I have every damn right to agree with what Perdedor has said, it doesn't mean I have anything against anyone here, nor does it give someone grounds to attack me, moderate me or warn me. Each one has their own opinion, and opinions are there to cause discussion, not argument. Disagreement should cause debate, not divide.

People take shitty little matters far too seriously on this board, in my opinion.

darkViVi · 02-09-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perdedor

...Associate themselves with Jesus and God, even if it is just hatred of such?
"Christ-killer"... hmm..... "Anti-christ"... ahem...

I see obsession.

As it is Biblically explained, even demons believe Jesus is the Son of God. They oppose, but they say such anyways.

And why does the alliance have to be in opposition to Christianity? Why can't it merely exist on it's own? Or even be in opposition to something else, really?

Discuss.

P.S. Sorry I was banned from ID for hurting Nin' 's feelings.

Ok... Soo.... First of all, I have never associated myself with Christianity, I oppose it because it consists of nothing but lies and made up stories. But that's me, as for other people that calls them self anti-christ etc I guess they just find it cool

Other things that bug me and other people are the Christians need to make other people Christians. Granted not all Christians are like that (I know one person that I can talk to and is a Christian) but that aside 98% of all Christians in this world are annoying bitches. Apart from Christians I don't like jews, and I have many reasons for this, one is that they think that they are better than everyone else.

Quote:

And such associate themselves with "evil", then turn around and say... "Evil is only an opinion!". Such a "peaceful" lifestyle resembles Islam. Which is purely opposition. Which is reeeeally nerdy.

*Points @ bolded text in quote*

What do you really know of Islam? You think they are all terrorists? In addition to know a Christian I know several believing Muslims and they never strapped a bomb to their bodies, sure they talk shit about America and Israel but who the hell don't? And both countries sure as hell deserves it.

Furthermore... I don't oppose of christianity just to oppose of it, just like I oppose gay people. I don't like them, so I oppose them (I don't like alcohol free beer either and oppose that aswell just incase you wanted to know^_^).

Finally I would like to add; pretty much every religion has/had their Satan or what they call it, he/it/whatever is there to equal the scale. Good Vs evil, evil Vs good. Without evil there can be no good if you know what I mean.

Sir Kenneth · 02-09-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musashiden

As a staunch Athiest and metalhead, I believe in nothing.

I do not embrace "evil" as you put it (although debauchery and general BoD mischief is quite all right

), nor do I protest the faith of others. I am anti-religion because I do not see it as logical, but I am most certainly not a "Christ-Killer" or an "Anti-Christ".

As for the music-fan stereotype you've offered, Hardcore and (most) Metal are offshoots of Punk Rock which as we all (or at least should) know was the soundtrack of the ultimate modern rebellion against authority. Religion is seen as an authority, and seeing as Metal is more or less the "evil" bastard child of punk rock, it only makes sense.

Metal being the bastard child of punk would be sort of weird since Black Sabbath released their first album in 1970 and a punk scene really wasn't established before the mid/late 70's.

Perdedor · 02-09-2007, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkViVi

Ok... Soo.... First of all, I have never associated myself with Christianity, I oppose it because it consists of nothing but lies and made up stories. But that's me, as for other people that calls them self anti-christ etc I guess they just find it cool

Other things that bug me and other people are the Christians need to make other people Christians. Granted not all Christians are like that (I know one person that I can talk to and is a Christian) but that aside 98% of all Christians in this world are annoying bitches. Apart from Christians I don't like jews, and I have many reasons for this, one is that they think that they are better than everyone else.

*Points @ bolded text in quote*

What do you really know of Islam? You think they are all terrorists? In addition to know a Christian I know several believing Muslims and they never strapped a bomb to their bodies, sure they talk shit about America and Israel but who the hell don't? And both countries sure as hell deserves it.

Furthermore... I don't oppose of christianity just to oppose of it, just like I oppose gay people. I don't like them, so I oppose them (I don't like alcohol free beer either and oppose that aswell just incase you wanted to know^_^).

Finally I would like to add; pretty much every religion has/had their Satan or what they call it, he/it/whatever is there to equal the scale. Good Vs evil, evil Vs good. Without evil there can be no good if you know what I mean.

Tremendous. Not only is this thread hijacked, but the most stereotypical people here end up labeling me as stereotypical! AHA!

You shouldn't get so offended. In a psychological aspect, I'd say you'd freak in a court of law. Because, if you have to throw a verbal brick at somebody's head in order to make a point, then you already lost the case. There's no good reason why you guys got so drastically defensive. I didn't ask about the occult, Satanism, The Epic of Gilgamesh, Ishtar's Descent, the name of Anton LaVey's pet liger, or the Koran. I'm well versed in whatever I wanna talk about, 'kay?

And I didn't need this to get so philosophical. I said "discuss". I didn't say "Enlighten me."

darkViVi · 02-09-2007, 10:52 AM

Well, I didn't get offended. ^_^

I was actually having fun when making that post, and perhaps you have been labelled as stereotypical because you are?

As for me in a court of law: I would most likely kick the judges ass and get arrested for that.

I actually wonder why you think I was offended, I am guessing you are atleast partly aiming at me because you quoted my post. I only spoke my opinion and my opinion will never change.
Besides, I would never get offended by something on the internet, anyone who does has a serious problem because the internet consists of so many things.

Maybe I am stereotypical but I couldn't care less, I am what I am.