Seekers of Illumination

[Silver]

Well I guess it's my turn to bring up a discussion topic.
Anyway I was wondering what your thoughts and understandings on the potential effects of interfaith dialogue were? And it can be either national or international multifaith dialogue.

I see this as a complex issue myself with two sides to the topic. On one side I see people talking about things such as how it might increase understanding between people of various faiths, but I also see other people who talk about the potential negative consequences. An example being, 'What if the vast differences between the culture and traditions of the participating faiths actually drive them more apart?'

Two things made me wonder about this. The first being our club. It's for 'seekers of enlightenment', with people of any religious background welcome, so long as they are serious about it.
The second was a piece of school work which I thought would be really boring and everything, but it was quite interesting.

Anyway, here's a quote from Raimon Panikkar to get things started:

Dialogue seeks truth by trusting the other, just as dialectics pursues truth by trusting the order of things, the value of reason and weighty arguments. Dialectics is the optimism of reason; dialogue is the optimism of the heart. Dialectics believes it can approach truth by relying on the objective consistency of ideas. Dialogue believes it can advance along the way to truth by relying on the subjective consistency of the dialogical partners. Dialogue does not seek primarily to be duo-logue, a duet of two logoi, which would still be dialectical; but a dia-logos, a piercing of the logos to attain a truth that transcends it.

[joesteel64]

wow, I've been gone for so long, it's good to be back! In case I haven't told you, I've been at East Carolina University for a summer program in Science and Math. For a month I've lived on campus, taken Bioanalytical Chemistry, Physics, and a computer programming course. I've also written physics research which will be submitted to outside sources.

Anyways, now that I'm back I am able to provide my services to the club, anything you need done, let me know and I'll be willing to help.

Now: Discussion.

I'm not overly familiar with the topic, but from what I do know, what Celtic says makes a lot of sense to me, and I'd have to agree with him. I'll add more to this later, but I'm about to get back to work on a paper for my high school.

[Govinda]

Touchy one that, Celtic. Nice idea.

Well...I think that multifaith dialogue is a great thing, so long as people come to the table and aren't offended by opposing beliefs. For some reason I'm thinking about this in a political context. Muslims and Christians spring to mind.

The differences could easily drive cultures and faiths apart. Athiesm offends some Christians as heresy; Christianty offends some Athiests as idiocy. Sadly, I think a lot of people are inclined to think that way, to be sure that theirs is the only path and to denounce all others.

Then again, it can draw cultures closer. My own is an example. The Church of Scotland and the Scottish Muslim Council have a close and friendly dialogue that works wonders for our communities. For instance, this close relationship led to them arranging a multi-faith anti-terrorism march after an Islamist drove a Jeep into Glasgow Airport. Thousands of all colours and faiths (some with no faith at all) gathered peacefully in George's Square under a common banner, whilst remembering that they were effectively different groups. This dialogue betwen faiths exists even when there is no threat to rally against.

But there will always be racists, and there were at that march. They were a minority though, quickly shouted at by both the Church, the Muslim Council, and the Scottish government. So we see how these things are never simple or pure.

I wish above all else that interfaith dialogue could occur peacefully, with understanding and reason. I don't think it ever will, though. Some people are willing to be tolerant, but more often than not a mob mentality springs up and intolerance follows.

I really hope this is making sense. Please bear in mind that this is being written at 4.11AM GMT and that the typist is facing Hell Work in four hours time.

To conclude, multifaith dialogue is an excellent idea, and something that we should all be working towards. The day when someone can express their beliefs peacefully without causing offence is one that should be worked towards earnestly, but sadly may still be a long way off.

[T.G. Oskar]

*pops into thread*

Hello there, guys. Well, it seems that Miss Govinda/Pablo Honey (uh, thanks Vicky?) is here to stay. We expect to achieve the degree of discussion that the Internet lacks, as you expose. I know you have visited the Intellectual Discussion sub-forum, so I guess it would be useless to recommend you to expose your opinion there.

Also, hello there, Joe. Bioanalytical Chemistry? What you studied there? I know that you probably noticed a different trend in the way school and college teaches Physics (due specifically to the reason of lack of Calculus in schools)

Now...
@discussion: Multi-faith dialogue is a very interesting way to realize the similitudes and differences of both faiths. It helps to expand the point of view about the precepts of other faiths, and builds tolerance. I believe that the dialogue should not remain only in the realm of different religions, but expand towards different ideologies. Unfortunately, it is harder to seek key experiences of life and understanding of other's principles within different philosophical ideologies than within religions. Why people from faiths that sometimes encourage the singular belief are capable of working together, but the people that are supposed to be superior to that pointless bickering are the people that negate to dialogue with faithful people. Makes little sense, when people that supposedly have an open mind towards many things are the ones that actually close their minds to an enriching dialogue with peoples of other faiths. And afterwards, they claim the faithful ones are the people with closed minds. Apparently, closed-mindedness is something that does not affect only religious, scientific, or philosophical people. It is something that affects the person individually, regardless of belief.

Well, I guess that concludes my intervention. I am grateful to announce all you guys that I'll be more often these days, since I got Internet installed directly to my house. I have to remain one year out of college (please don't ask), but since I have a desktop and relatively fast Internet, I can watch over the thread. Also, to anyone who hasn't already done so, you are invited to participate in the club RP, if you desire.

So, until further time, I'll be off

*Pops out of thread*

NEAR-THREE MONTHS ADDENDUM:
Umm...things are looking grim in here...and now that I got a laptop...if anyone of the club sees this, come on, even if you spam a little bit, just as long as you say hi and that you live, I guess that is enough. I know that rules have to be respected and everything, but some activity from members would be nice, y'know. And, notice that I used my last post as an edit, not a double post...

[Azuteor]

Hey guys! How is everyone!~

I see that the club is now in the back due to our inactivity. So, just let everyone know, I am still alive and this time, instead of Kuradic or Kaitou being my motivator, T.G.O has 'forced' me to post. >:3 Anyways, today T.G.O and I got together in an MMORPG called Ragnarok and have been thinking about the club. If anyone is interested to play the game, please come and join us.



Edit:

Took it off. Just PM if you want to know how to get to the server we're playing.

[joesteel64]

Hey everyone....it's been far too long. How's everyone been lately? I'm currently working on coming up with a sort of welcome back discussion for anyone who pops back in.

@Ragnarok: How graphically intensive is RO? I'm on dial-up so anything that's connection intensive won't work out until broadband is made available in my area (A two minute drive and I could have high speed internet)

Once high speed is made available, I will definitely have to check it out though

Regards,
Steel

[Silver]

I'm good. And I'll check out the game a bit later, but even with pretty much the best broadband you can get here, I'm really no better off than joesteel.
Our broadband is about the equivalent of the dialup of some places...
At peak times it's insane fast though ^_^

That said, it may be very soon that it'll be easier. Depending on the results of this election...
Apparently one guy finally wants to give us the technology for some really fast net...

[OmniTense]

Hello, people. Boy, I thought this club was done for a while ago. It just seemed so dead. It good to see some interaction.

I'm in good form. It's a little cold here and I'd rather be back home, but wah.

-Sin

[Azuteor]

@Joey and Celtic: Hey guys, haven't talked to you in a while! >w<; It's nice to talk to old friends! Ragnarok works pretty well in dial-up and broadband. If it is too much, you can always fix your settings. Since both of you haven't played Ragnarok before you will have to download the full client from the link I provided. The file is 973.68 MB. Hope to see you online!

Sinister: Yeah, unfortunately, but since we have some activity we should at least hang on just a bit longer. If we can get everybody here to play Ragnarok, we would be able to have another activity to do other than our usual activities. Doesn't mean we should stop doing the activities, but hopefully it will spark some interest from other TFF members. :3

[T.G. Oskar]

Exactly. I was warding the thread for the last few weeks, but since no one was trying to make up something, like giving ideas for discussion...

Still. While the actual premise of the club isn't exactly about Ragnarok Online, I thought that adopting in-thread discussions about the game and serving as a help site in forum could spark some interest. I do not intend to make the SoI a mere RO fan club: it is in my interest that we remain on our original mission. And keep the discussions aloft. I just thought that since most of the high command like the game, it could allow for extra activities, and even work as a way to aid on other endeavours, just like the forum RP we had. I would like to have everyone playing, but as with all MMOs, you guys should consider that it may undertake some of your time to do stuff, and make you neglect things. I intend to add this as a form of club activity, to spark interest, and since we are not restrictive in guest status, or even in allowing anyone to discuss about things, it may even help on the recruitment. Yet, the club exists for a purpose, and the inclusion of RO as a club activity should not become the eventual goal of the club, but a secondary one. Having said that...

The game isn't that challenging in terms of hardware requirements. While it has a simulated 3-D environment, most of the play and character images are distinctively 2-D, and the graphical requirements are at much minimum. The main problem would be patching and the size of the key file (data.grf).

Also, a friendly reminder. This is a private server, which means, within other things, that it is not an official server. At most, we can talk about our activities as a group and about helping in terms of builds and stuff, but, as I assume all mods and admins will do, TFF will not endorse the server. If we are to talk about the game, it is preferable to talk via PMs, or by Messenger, instead of in-forum. Things like skills, builds and some of the information that is present in the main server can be discussed: it is much like speaking about skills and characters in a Final Fantasy game. In very strict terms, we can also speak about the guild. However, speaking about the server directly should not be encouraged (which means, Suzu, that you should be taking the links off the forum. We don't want problems with our fellow mods and admins, right?).

If Andro, Vicky or the admins request that we cease speaking about the game or the server, we as a club are required to respect their decision. We ain't troublemakers (heck, not even the BoD would defy that much if asked, and we know they sometimes are harsh with the mods). If any of the admins or mods would come here and explain what and what not we can do, I would be grateful for it. I want to make this an activity, but still retaining our adherence to the rules. I speak of this because I understand people like Andro, whom pay for playing in an official server, and whom would not like to hear about free ways to play the same game that are not endorsed by the main company. As for my position, I would like to play very specific MMOs, but I can't pay for them since I lack both the ways (no credit card, no PayPal), and because I ain't willing to pay to play a game if I ain't sure I will use enough of the time. Regardless, it would be nice to hear the official position.

Having said that...

I feel happy to know people have not forgotten about the thread. I do recommend that, even if you have no particular thing to say, at least say hi once in a while: that is what I always ask for. Also, feel free to ask for help or aid in troubling situations. Sometimes, the best thing to have is someone who will listen (besides God/whomever you worship).

[Silver]

Hey guys. It's been interesting talking about random things, but for a little while recently, I haven't really felt like this is the place for me. I believe in God and all, but I'm a creature of vice...
My soul may be damned for painful cleansing in purgatory, but whatever the case, I can't keep up the search for the light...
Cos I know it, and feel it, but can never fully get there.

I'm one with my demons...
Cheers.
Resigning and all,
celtic.

[T.G. Oskar]

And here goes the 3rd (or is it 4th? I can't recall very much) time I see such lack of activity and interest in the club. Which is a disillusionment, since I saved saying anything until I had my 777th post in the forum, considering this might actually happen.

Yay...777th post. Sought so much for this milestone, and I have nobody to share it with? Which leads me to...

Seriously, members, are you willing to keep up with this? Every now and then a message to tell the others you're still alive, and nothing else? When I took up the leadership of the club, I expected that at least the club would have some more activity, as I often tend to whip ya guys into action. Nowadays, it seems like no one is actually taking interest in even keeping the thread alive, which is the minimum prerequisite. Sheesh.

I remember the old days. When we had discussions, when we spoke of what happened to each other, and even helped members in need. Where prayers were offered, and hopefully answered. Where people could have a side to respond to the overtly-bigot filled Brotherhood, and eventually form a group good enough to face them, and perhaps erasing them. Now, we have to wait and see until the Colt gets better and decides the fate of the factions (which, as far as I think, it will end in a "no-contest", as Colt cares little about what happens on the clubs beyond thread and/or forum rulebreaking). Now, we have turned into second-page threads, mostly forgotten, and inactive like heck. We've had our inaction moments, and our moments of greater activity, but this is going out of my hands. Any bit more of action and I would be actually forcing people to join, just to keep the boat floating. Or whipping careless members into posting, which is equally undesirable. One of our former members, Celtic, even defected into a group I knew would not accept him, just because he's not "as cool" as them. And, after all, I saw that he was no longer interested in being active in a "semi-dead" club (hey, I still watch it every now and then, just to see if someone actually answers). I know everyone has RL interests and troubles, but that's actually one of the things I at least seek: to make friends from the members, and have something to talk about