Trusting and alcohol.

[Chez Daja]

I know this subject is a little hard to generalize on, but I'm basing it off something that happened today.
See, I'm still living with my parents. Yeah, I shouldn't be scrounging off them anymore, but that's irrelevent to the subject I'm about to make.
Anyway, my dad was a recovering alcoholic. He didn't have a drink for about.... two/three months. Things were okay and this whole thing was working for us. We were all happy.
Anyway. He came home drunk today. REALLY badly drunk. I guess my years of suffering verbally and physically under his cruel drunk facade should've taught me never to have trusted him. But I guess I did. Had my trust broken, and I haven't been feeling great lately anyway, so this was a major add-on for pain and distrust.
Do you think all alcoholics lie like this? By promising they'll sober up and then not doing so?
I know everybody is different, but still... it seems all alcoholics are the same... =\

[User Name]

I woulnd't really know to be honost. My grandmother was the same way. My dad would tell me stories about her and how she treated him but he knew that that wasn't her but the alcohol and the disease so when I was young I never really got to spend time with her unless my parents were there to supervise her drinking.

[Bunny]

It is kind of hard for me to get involved in a discussion of this nature; I do not know any alcoholics and I do not trust anybody enough to be devestated if they do something they promised not to do. Anyway, I don't think you should have your trust for your father broken completely because he came home really drunk one night after two/three months of being sober. Do you know the reason he got drunk? He could have an extremely valid reason to do what he did(valid for HIM, that is, not anyone else). I could make connections between drinking and other things that specific people do for specific reasons, but I will not.

Anyway, don't be so quick to judge him. He could have been trying really hard to not drink because of the promise or whatever that he made with you. But then something happened that was so hard to deal that he "had" to do it.

Uh.. yeah?

[Chez Daja]

Both, sort of. My mother wanted to leave him, so he got all depressed, but when he stopped drinking, she and he were fine... she even said she wanted to give things another chance, because he had stopped coming home.

It pisses me off that he would come crying to me about how she didn't want to be with him anymore, yet he knows his drinking was the reason. Maybe he's just trying to push us all away.

I have no idea, but still...After 21 years of this shit, I guess we have to just...draw the line. Makes me wonder if my parents will divorce now. Not that I really care about that very much.

[Warren Space]

I don't understand what the problem is here? as long as he isn't drinking every night, what's wrong if he drinks a beer once in a while? I mean I don't understand whats wrong with a swig of brookski every now and then. I'm guessing your father is over 21 years old, and there for legally allowed to drink under the influence, so why won't you let the man drink a gallon of rum every one in a while? I mean he's old enough to drink beer if he wants to so you don't be to piss him off. Maybe your the reason he drinks because you are always stressing them out, and I'm not saying that to be mean, just honestly, if I were your dad, and you were still living with me, I'd live at the bar, I'd wear of of those soda drink hats, but instead of soda it'd be beer, and my body would consist of 70% alchohol. As far as trusting him, well of course you never trust a drunk person, so when he goes into a drunken rage, just try and calm him with an alcholic beverage, like beer. You know what they say, to neautrlize the effects of one beer, drink another.

[Chez Daja]

That's absolute bullshit. No offence, but c'mon. What you just said was crap.

My dad gets drunk because he's got a goddamn problem. He's been drinking for 30 years. Oh lets see... I'm younger then thirty.

Nobody drinks more to get better. That post seriously pissed me off. He gets drunk. AND HE GETS VIOLENT.

Luckily, he's not done enough to actually warrent any kind of crime. I'm just saying. A guy who gets violent and angry over beer should NOT drink at all.

[Warren Space]

Bull. EVERYONE gets violent when they drink too much alcohol, it's isn't just your dad, but the key to stop an addiction is to WEEN off of it, not stop cold turky, because then you'll be surpressing the urges, all your dad needs to do is drink less quanities of beer, as long as he doesn't drink 10 cans a day, then he can slowey turn it into 9 cans, then 8 and so on, until him comes to a point where he's no longer endangering himself.

[Chez Daja]

That's what he did.

And not everybody gets violent when they drink too much. Hello? I've seen my mother drunk on few occassions, but all she did was talk about nothing. Even when I yelled at her, she just looked at me, all confused. She never got violent or anything. Seriously, stop talking out of your ass. No offence, but you seriously need to get your facts straight.

Anyone wanna lead this back on-topic, pretty please?

[Plastik Assassin]

I will say this - Addiction and alcoholism are two very serious medical conditions and need to be treated as such. Alcoholism is not a choice. You don't choose to have a problem. Its not a case of want vs. need ....

With that said, I will proudly admit that I am a recovering drug addict and know the 12 steps like the backside of my ass. Well, hand maybe....

First off, the reason that alcoholics cant drink and addicts cant use is not because alcohol is a "bad habit" or anything like that. For most, its a crutch. Its a way to bury life's problems and remain ignorant about the downsides in their lives. Not all get violent, some get depressed. Some get happy, some get sad. Regardless of whatever emotion transpires, its not a healthy habit to have. One should remain vigilant and steadfast throuugh life's challenges and not hide in a pill/bottle and stuff it deep inside. All that does is cause more problems psychologically. I say psychologically because even though alcoholism/addiction has negative physical effects, it all begins in the mind...

Some people can have a drink once in a while, some people can't. It doesnt make them weak or damaged in any way, it just makes them someone with a problem. Who doesn't have 2 or 3 of those?

I have never ever been able to explain addiction/alcoholism properly, except to other addicts. Its really more of a thing that transcends words. All I know is that day after day, hour after hour, it is an extremely difficult thing to deal with....

Anyways - My advice to Chez is this.....
Addicts lie. Alcoholics lie. People lie. EVERYONE lies. I am not trying to give anyone a free pass here - BUT - The thing is with a situation like yours, is that it is ungodly hard not to. When you have been trying so hard to accomplish so much, and you mess up, its not the easiest thing to fess up to. And trust me, if he has been sober for that long, he is working his ass off for it. Hundreds of people try every day to make it even a week, and fail miserably.

Dont distrust the man for making a mistake. We all do. In my own experience, it took me 5 or 6 times to quit, with tons of lies in between those efforts. Like I said, its no walk in the park by any means...

If it were me, and I did love my father enough to where things like that would hurt me, all I would do is offer my help. Sobriety can only be achieved by the person with the problem, and that person alone, but a little support goes a hell of a long way. Heck, if my family were behind me when I gave up the dope, it probably wouldn't have been so damn hard....

But thats just my opinion.....


EDIT!!!!!
In 1956, the American Medical Association (AMA) stated alcoholism was a disease, as it met the five criteria needed in order to be considered a disease: pattern of symptoms, chronic, progression, subject to relapse, and treatability. One could learn about the disease concept through community lectures, articles in the paper, alcoholism hotlines and, of course, Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) meetings.

Courtesy of Hope Networks

[OceanEyes28]

Warren Space, I have to watch my words here because I'm supposed to set an example.

But seriously. Do you know anything about alcoholics at all? It's a disease and it's dangerous for all parties involved. A person can be the sweetest damn thing you've ever met, but once drunk, they can become a completely different person. No, it is not okay for a parent to get drunk all the time. That is not acceptable. Parents have a responsibility to their children. And there is a difference between drinking responsibly and "drinking a gallon of rum." A glass of wine with dinner. A beer with friends. Okay, that's fine. But coming home drunk and getting verbally and physically violent is not okay. I have no idea how you could ever think it was okay. You completely disregarded Chez's thoughts on the matter, and you appear to be completely ignorant of what it means to be a responsible adult.

As for the topic, I don't know if all alcoholics are the same, really. But they certainly have similarities. The major one I've noticed is becoming a completely different person when drunk. My grandfather was an alcoholic, and apparently, he was a nice guy usually. But then he would get drunk and abuse my grandmother and uncle. Sometimes my mom. Point is, he wasn't himself. And from what I hear of other alcoholics, they aren't either when drunk.

But yeah, my dad tells me about alcoholics he sees in the ER who drink gallons of alcohol a day. And it's gotten to the point where it's dangerous to their health if they don't get alcohol into their system. It's such a sad thing. Quitting alcohol is just as hard as quitting smoking, I'd imagine; but it can be done. And yeah, I imagine your dad really is trying. At least he's giving it a shot and realizes that it's a problem. I'd say be careful about it, but don't give up on him yet.

[Lover Boy]

My parents are alcoholics.

They say they're trying to quit drinking and smoking.

They don't.

Life goes on.

[Jin]

Alcoholism is not a disease. You cannot "catch" alcoholism. Addictions are just addictions. There's only one way to be cured; stop drinking. It isn't easy obviously, that's what makes it an addiction, but it can be and has been done. Again, it certainly isn't a disease.

On to the topic: I don't know your father Chez, obviously, but I would guess that he had a relapse...well, that didn't take much detective work, but anyways. He did have a relapse as many recovering alcoholics do. It isn't always because they do it on purpose, very rarely I'd be willing to bet, it's because they had a lapse in willpower and they weren't strong enough to fight it. Of course, that doesn't go for everyone, and as I said before, I don't know your dad so he may well have not actually wanted to stop drinking. I'd place my money on the former however.

[Plastik Assassin]

One more quick thing... see my edit a couple posts above....

Also, alcoholism is indeed a disease. So is Alzheimers and Cancer for that matter. So is Lou Gehrig's Disease as well as Heart Disease. No matter how wonderful you treat your body, nature still produces these things. You cant "catch" those either.

The American Medical Association declared alcoholism a disease back in 1956. The World Health Organization did in 1951. I trust those folks. No offense man.

Just wanted to clairify that real quick. Sorry to be short that time.

[Chez Daja]

Originally Posted by OceanEyes28

But yeah, my dad tells me about alcoholics he sees in the ER who drink gallons of alcohol a day. And it's gotten to the point where it's dangerous to their health if they don't get alcohol into their system.

I had a friend like that actually. She had cancer, and when I visited her, I would take her whisky and smokes. It seems like an illogical thing to do, but the volunteer workers at the hospice encouraged bringing her alcohol and cigarettes because was actually keeping her alive (well, not logically, more along the lines of "if you take it away, she'd die even faster"). Unfortunately, her daughter, not understanding this, took all of her alcohol away. She died a few days after.

Jin, yes, although he needed to stop drinking because he was getting ill because of it and because my mother considering leaving him because of this... I honestly think he deep down didn't want to stop drinking. He was ashamed of his actions, yes. I suppose it only bothered me because my little brother is so young and my sister and I are so much older and able to move out.

It's pretty hard to find trust in him now, since I discovered him a few hours ago, outside, trying to open the bonnet of my mothers' car, after yelling he was going to smash it up...my sister was the one who was able to stop him from doing so. I'm making sure to stay up all night so that he doesn't try to damage anything. I'm trying hard not to lose faith in him...but he's always been like this. It's sad. I dread thinking of anything drink related these days. TOo many scars on the inside -- and the outside.

Originally Posted by PA

Addicts lie. Alcoholics lie. People lie. EVERYONE lies. I am not trying to give anyone a free pass here - BUT - The thing is with a situation like yours, is that it is ungodly hard not to. When you have been trying so hard to accomplish so much, and you mess up, its not the easiest thing to fess up to. And trust me, if he has been sober for that long, he is working his ass off for it. Hundreds of people try every day to make it even a week, and fail miserably.

Yeah, I understand that. I'll try to speak to him about this once he's sober. Maybe he'll actually take the time to listen this time. ._.;
I can't help but doubt it, though.

Also... Thanks, everyone, for your contributions to this thread.


Edit: Thanks, PA. ^^