The Devil/Satan

[Gun]

Both the words "Devil" and "Satan" mean "the accuser", the first in Greek, the latter in Hebrew. But what is s/he/it? Many have had theories upon the source and purpose of the Devil. These "theodicies" have attempted to explain why God allowed the Devil into the world. If God is both omniscient, and omnipotent, why does the Devil exist?

Epicurus stated that God cannot let the Devil exist, whilst knowing about him, or whilst being able to stop him. However, many have disagreed.

The Devil is an opposing force to God
Saint Augustine stated that the Devil tempted Eve into taking the Forbidden Fruit. This, in effect, caused the Fall of Humanity, as many already know. However, Genesis does not say that the serpent is the Devil. So, this theory means that, either St Augustine has discovered what the Bible has not, or the writers of the Old Testament purposely left that part out. But why? We do not know.

In more recent times, John Milton wrote a series of writings called "Paradise Lost", where the theory arose that Satan was a cherub that rebelled against God.

The Devil is an instrument of God
If God created the universe out of nothing, as Genesis states, then the Devil was created by God. Therefore, the Devil cannot be evil, for he was created by the ultimate source of good. So, what is he then? Many believe that he serves God in a higher plan. In the book of Job, God allows the Devil to test Job's faith. This must mean that the Devil takes orders from God, and is his instrument upon Earth.

The Devil is a myth
Rudolf Butmann, a theologist, believed in the idea of "demythologisation". This ideal forces us to give up the myth of the Devil, and makes us believe that we are responsible for the evil in the world, and it is our duty to rid this from the Earth. However, Jesus himself refers to the Devil, and talks to demons (as well as exorcises them, e.g. Legion "for we are many") thus this theology is moot.

What do you think? Is the Devil real? Is he a myth? Why is he on Earth?

[TomStrife]

I think he is real. I believe he was an angel named Lucifer who was in charge of music in Heaven, but was soon kicked out of Heaven due to his jealous desire to become stronger than God.

Now, Lucifer is Satan and he is trying to trick people into going into hell by filling people's lives with fear of what people will think of them if they do something right and take a stand for God.

Alot of people wonder why God wouldn't just destroy Satan then and there.

If Satan didn't exist, Jesus would have no reason to die on the cross and Christians would have nothing to fight against.

I believe Satan will be destroyed by God at the end of the Tribulation.

[LocoColt04]

From a Christian standpoint, it would seem as though TomStrife pretty much hit the nail on the head. The Devil, Satan, Lucifer... whatever you'd like to call him, I think that it stands as the opposite driving force in the Christian world. There cannot be good without evil, after all, so how can people strive to be good if there is no evil in the world, or no evil desires to overcome?

If there is one true God, then there would have to be one true evil presence to counterbalance all of His goodness. The world is about balance, after all.



I personally don't believe in "the Devil" in a Christian context, but recognize Hades as that dark figure. Hades is the brother of Zeus and Poseidon, and is the ruler of the underworld. I don't necessarily consider him to be evil per se, but he is still the corrupt, power-hungry younger brother who seeks power amongst the gods. Same basic concept, but with less of the "evil of all realms" type of standing. Hey, I even consider Aries to be more evil than Hades... but what bloodthirsty warmongering god wouldn't be?

[Rikkuffx]

I believe in the devil.Probably because of what I learned in sunday school,i'm catholic,I believe that the devil wanted Jesus to join him but Jesus didn't want to join a figure of evil.The devil promised jesus he could take him out of the suffering and being crucified,if Jesus joined him.Thats my viewpoint,but Jesus didn't want to join him because he knew chaos would rule the world if he joined him.Theres always a battle between good and evil.But yes I beleive in him,not so bad that if I sin I will go straight to hell,but I do believe he is there.

[Dark One]

Originally Posted by TomStrife

I think he is real. I believe he was an angel named Lucifer who was in charge of music in Heaven, but was soon kicked out of Heaven due to his jealous desire to become stronger than God.

Now, Lucifer is Satan and he is trying to trick people into going into hell by filling people's lives with fear of what people will think of them if they do something right and take a stand for God.

Alot of people wonder why God wouldn't just destroy Satan then and there.

If Satan didn't exist, Jesus would have no reason to die on the cross and Christians would have nothing to fight against.

I believe Satan will be destroyed by God at the end of the Tribulation.

That is the same as I think he was a beautiful angel that got a mind that he was better than god. So god put him on earth tell the repsher. Then he well be put in a lake of fire.

[Casanova[OCAU]]

My belief on hell, heaven, devil, god, is explained well by a song called 'Right in Two - Tool'

Angels on the sideline,
Puzzled and amused.
Why did Father give these humans free will?
Now they're all confused.

Don't these talking monkeys know that
Eden has enough to go around?
Plenty in this holy garden, silly old monkeys,
Wonders when you're bound to divide it

Right in two

Angels on the sideline,
Baffled and confused.
Father blessed them all with reason.
And this is what they choose.
(and this is what they choose)
Monkey killing monkey killing monkey
Over pieces of the ground.

Silly monkeys given thumbs,
They forge a blade,
And brothers wonder
bound to divide it,

Right in two.
Right in two.

Monkey killing monkey killing monkey
Over pieces of the ground.
Silly monkeys give them thumbs,
They make a club
And beat their brother..down.
How they survive so misguided is a mystery.
Repugnant IS THE CREATURE WHO WOULD SQUANDER THE ABILITY TO LIFT AN EYE
TO HEAVEN CONSCIOUS OF THIS FLEETING TIME HERE

Cutting it all right in two (x4)

Fight over the clouds, over wind, over sky
Fight over life, over blood, over prayer, overhead and light
Fight over love, over sun, over another
Fight...

Angels on the sideline again
BEEN SO LONG WITH patience and reason
Angels on the sideline again
Wondering when this tug of war will end


Cutting it all right in two (x3)
Right in two

Right in two...

The devil is just a metaphor for all this immoral, and God is a metaphor for the selfless acts of altruism.
Eden and hell are just metaphors for the earth. It is what we make it. I'd have to say it came a long way since the middle ages. But, we've still a way to go. Bill Hicks is good on these topics too.

Edit:- on a funny yet unrelated note, a friend of mine got called a heathen on a tram because she was doing B.Science, funnily enough, from a lady returning from a hospital. Hypocrasy at is finest.

[Emerut]

Originally Posted by TomStrife

I think he is real. I believe he was an angel named Lucifer who was in charge of music in Heaven, but was soon kicked out of Heaven due to his jealous desire to become stronger than God.

Now, Lucifer is Satan and he is trying to trick people into going into hell by filling people's lives with fear of what people will think of them if they do something right and take a stand for God.

Alot of people wonder why God wouldn't just destroy Satan then and there.

If Satan didn't exist, Jesus would have no reason to die on the cross and Christians would have nothing to fight against.

I believe Satan will be destroyed by God at the end of the Tribulation.

Ok question if "satan" exist so jesus could die on the cross for the sins of man then why not just destory satan so jesus didn't have to be tortured?why should christians have something to fight against? Are you saying that god let satan exist so his son could die and the people he created could have worries and fears? just so humans POUNDER weather he exist or not why not just prove that he is there?

[Edward Elric]

Originally Posted by Emerut

Ok question if "satan" exist so jesus could die on the cross for the sins of man then why not just destory satan so jesus didn't have to be tortured?why should christians have something to fight against? Are you saying that god let satan exist so his son could die and the people he created could have worries and fears? just so humans POUNDER weather he exist or not why not just prove that he is there?

One of the main reasons Satan exists is to punish the sinners of the human race. Sure, christians fight against him, but thats not why he exists. He exists to take the damned souls into hell, their punishment for their sins. And besides, if Satan did originate from Lucifer, then God did not create him just for fighting christians.

One thing I find a bit amusing, though, is that even though there is the story of Lucifer the fallen angel, then why is it that most people, when they think of the devil, they think of a red being with the body of "Pan", a Greek god, with a trident, the weapon of "Poseidon", another Greek god. Altough, this doesn't say if the devil is made up or not, but it is an easy way to see the church's attempt at blocking out pagan religions.