Would a perfect God create an imperfect world/species?

$Nanaki$ · 06-13-2006, 11:12 PM

Do you think an all knowing, omnipotent Creator would create and imperfect world? Or even an imperfect being? If the Bible says we were created in His image, then why are we imperfect?

I’m not trying to interpret the Bible or any religious sect whatsoever, because I know all or most of them have reasons why we are imperfect, but I’m asking from an Agnostic point of view, for a frame of reference.
I mean if we were a perfect society, and perfect beings, wouldn’t we live forever and exist peacefully with one another?

On the other hand, if you were God, wouldn’t you feel really upset and hurt at your creations destroying themselves and their world, after all the time and effort you put into creating them?

Now, does this bring up the concept of “Free wail” in that He may have created us, but he also gave us the choice to do as we will—I think that’s probably the best explanation, but I also think if he saw things were getting too bad, wouldn’t He step in and intervene?

Just a few things to stimulate your opinions and interest.

punkgothenem · 06-14-2006, 08:59 AM

god did not create us to be perfect because if he did we would then think that we would not need him and that we could overpower him the same thing happened to angel named satan who tried to over power god and look at him now

IRANianCha0s · 06-14-2006, 09:11 AM

thats true. because we have flaws (mainly moral flaws), god has given life to us as a trial to see whether we will complete our life cycle as a good or bad person overall.

Blacksmith · 06-14-2006, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $Nanaki$

Do you think an all knowing, omnipotent Creator would create and imperfect world? Or even an imperfect being? If the Bible says we were created in His image, then why are we imperfect?

I’m not trying to interpret the Bible or any religious sect whatsoever, because I know all or most of them have reasons why we are imperfect, but I’m asking from an Agnostic point of view, for a frame of reference.
I mean if we were a perfect society, and perfect beings, wouldn’t we live forever and exist peacefully with one another?

On the other hand, if you were God, wouldn’t you feel really upset and hurt at your creations destroying themselves and their world, after all the time and effort you put into creating them?

Now, does this bring up the concept of “Free wail” in that He may have created us, but he also gave us the choice to do as we will—I think that’s probably the best explanation, but I also think if he saw things were getting too bad, wouldn’t He step in and intervene?

Just a few things to stimulate your opinions and interest.

You obviously have not read any of the bible enough to understand anything at all about "God" and the like. Sure, I bet he does feel sad as hell a lot of people piss on his name and whatever, but he'd already know it would happen. Anyway, he didn't create imperfect beings. Take a peak at the first chapter of the Bible and you will know that he created two beings in his image who were given "free will". But it's a double edged sword and Lucifer, being the sly bastard he is, tricked Eve to finally sin when she shouldn't have. God gave people free will and I'm sure he very well knew the consequences since he is after all, God.

We aren't perfect because of choice and free will. It's this that makes our lives more real than anything else. Just imagine if you didn't have choice or free will, you'd have to do everything you're told and have no life of your own.

I personally would rather be imperfect than perfect itself because if you achieve perfection, what else is there to do? If you master something in this world where no one is better at what you do you become a tool to society. So really, why would you want to be perfect in the first place? I suggest you think harder about this next time it comes to mind. Oh and this is entirely from a christian point of view, not my own. I got a lot of shit crammed down my throat as a child, fun eh?

Bunny · 06-14-2006, 09:26 AM

I would like to remind you all, specifically punkgothenem and IRANianCha0s that this is a forum for debates and discussions. Posts that say "Nope, that didn't happen!" or "Yeah, that guy is totally right about ______" do not really belong here. $Nakaki$ asked questions, and those questions require answers. Just say what you think about the subject and try to give a little more opinion-based answers rather than to say that something did not happen, could not happen, or that you completely agree with the other guy.

Now, I do not know a lot about religion because it does not interest me that much. I don't know about God and I don't know about Satan, and I would rather not make uneducated guesses on anything dealing with either of them. I could say a few things about this subject, but I would rather not get myself into a debate on this at the present moment. Really, the only thing I had to say was above there. So to those two members that I pointed out specifically, and to the rest of the people that decide to post in here, keep in mind that this is a discussion.

IRANianCha0s · 06-14-2006, 09:32 AM

Quote:

god did not create us to be perfect because if he did we would then think that we would not need him and that we could overpower him the same thing happened to angel named satan who tried to over power god and look at him now

Quote:

thats true. because we have flaws (mainly moral flaws), god has given life to us as a trial to see whether we will complete our life cycle as a good or bad person overall.

you didnt even read our damn posts, did you?

Bunny i think you need to stop being so trigger happy to suddenly assume our posts were spam, they're not.
both of us, regardless of how short the posts are, posted our own unique views/opinions on the issue. so you better stop.

Bunny · 06-14-2006, 09:41 AM

You gave your opinions based one what you think he thinks would happen. Which, generally, is not an opinion at all but an assumption as to what another being would be thinking. Yes, I read your posts. I did not warn you, like I maybe should have. I asked you, nicely enough, that you expand upon your ideas and let the rest of the fine people here know what led you to make these "opinions" based on whatever the hell you based them on. Do not tell me to stop doing my job. This is the end of this discussion specially. I am not telling you that you cannot argue with me, but I am telling you that you do not need to do it in this thread. Private Message me if you want to further continue.

TomStrife · 06-14-2006, 12:21 PM

I don't agree in any attempts to create a "Manmade Perfect Race" with Stem Cell Research, but I do know for a fact that the Bible states (in my words):

All who go to Heaven will become perfect. God will create a new Heaven and a new Earth and Christians will dwell in it. There will be no crying, no sorrow. Everytihng will be Perfect.

Yuki-onna · 06-14-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomStrife

I don't agree in any attempts to create a "Manmade Perfect Race" with Stem Cell Research, but I do know for a fact that the Bible states (in my words):

All who go to Heaven will become perfect. God will create a new Heaven and a new Earth and Christians will dwell in it. There will be no crying, no sorrow. Everytihng will be Perfect.

Ah. I've been meaning to debate this for some time. I'm not pissing, I'm just wondering.

So. Those who believe they go to paradise/heaven and the like, are promised to be made perfect.
I was thinking, I've already been made. I'm a mixture of good, and evil, to put it very black and white. That is who I am. That is how I experience life, what helps me make the right decisions, what makes me enjoy my days.

If I were to be 'remade' in a perfect manner I wouldn't be myself, and I like myself just the way I am.

No hurt? No pain? Those feelings I love, they make me enjoy my life more.

How could one ever want to live without them?

Asheis · 06-14-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xantcha

No hurt? No pain? Those feelings I love, they make me enjoy my life more.

How could one ever want to live without them?

Ah, not only that, but without the above mentioned feelings, things like pleasure, or joy, or happiness, or any other feelings that contrast darker ones would have no significance. So not only would you be "remade into someone else", but you wouldn't be able to feel anything.

There is no such thing as joy without sorrow, dark without light, or pleasure without pain.

$Nanaki$ · 06-14-2006, 01:37 PM

Damn. I certainly stirred the pot on this one, didn't I ? It's been said that you piss people off when you talk about 2 things --politics and religion and it seems to be very true. I must thank Bunny for trying to clear up what meant all along-- OPINIONS, not just revcylced rhetoric.

And YES I have read the Bible, and I think it's a wonderful story, but to me it is just that--a wonderful story. It was written by HUMANS and as such is open to thier interpretation of what was said. You can believe what you want to believe, and I respect that, but remember, books, are written by man and as such are open to our own colouring of the events. It's like the game "Chinese Whispers"--what ends up at the end is always different from the beginning. Keep that in mind kiddos.

TomStrife · 06-14-2006, 02:24 PM

A story? Do you think the people who wrote what God told them to write would be hung upside-down for a story? I'm sure Paul who wrote most of the New Testament would die for a novel.

Please, it is not a story, it is as true as can be. But you are entitled to believe whatever you want.

Lai · 06-14-2006, 03:24 PM

How on earth do you know that it's all a true story? You weren't there to witness it all. How does anyone know it's all true? How does anyone know it hasn't been exaggerated to hell?