Minimum wage raise in the US

[SOLDIER #819]

Yes.

This is a debate. People like you are what make this forum worth reading. I can only wish I could do what you guys just did.

I love you guys more than I love using italics in this post. Post more often, please.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by Secret Azn Man

Guess what? Reality says, no. Already its harder to qualify for government assistance. More and more people get denied as requirements tighten. Those who are on assistance aren't getting as much as they used to. Often, they suddenly find themselves no longer eligible like Sherry did.

Oh, I'm still eligable, but not for food stamps.

When on Welfare, they FORCE you to go to job training, and they give you LESS per month than a minimum wage job would, they ENCOURAGE working and they help people get a good job so they won't need the assistance anymore. I happened to take my one year newborn exemption - which EVERY woman has a right to only once in their lives, welfare or not. My main problem of why I can't get a job yet is...for one....I don't drive, nor do I see myself driving any time soon because I have a fear of driving. Second, who's gonna watch the baby? I'm not gonna let some stranger care for my child. Therefore, I MUST be the only one to watch him, and I'm forced into the situation I'm currently in, especially since his father isn't in the picture. I told my mom I wanted to move out but all she can do is bitch about who's gonna take care of the baby, SURELY not some broad with two kids of her own that I BARELY know (she offered to help)....and wants the baby looked after by people who know and love him....but the only way for THAT to happen is for mom to quit her job and us go bankrupt.

And I was arguing the less popular side of things because....well...without the other side there is no debate, now is there?

[Tiffany]

Well... most people argue for what they believe in methinks

I'm glad they force people to do job training on Welfare, plus pay less. While you particularly might not be leeching off the system, there are MILLIONS who do. Just think of it, if welfare were to start paying more, why would anyone want to get a job? When they can sit at home and do nothing?

While I feel for you and your newborn exemption, I don't think of it as an excuse. There are SO many people I know that due to unfortunate circumstances, went back to work early because they needed the money and (like you) were frustrated with how little money they've gotten from social assistances.

My one friend went to work when her daughter was 5 weeks old. It was hard on her, but getting food on the table and keeping a roof over their heads was more important. Another friend went back to work when her son was 6 months old (again for same reasons). I can understand wanting to be at home with your son, these are years you are never going to get back! But there's a price to pay for doing that, as I'm sure you're feeling the pinch right now.

I also don't see not being able to drive as being a reason why one cannot work. Is there not public transit? Unless you live out in the BOONDOCKS where there are no buses whatsoever. Now again, I'm not trying to personally say "YOU" and whatnot, just giving a general response because you're on the 'other' side of the argument (as you pointed out )

[Hecate]

I'm in a little area, and public trasit doesn't come to my area. The nearest place is 15 minutes from here down in Hermitage. And I know a lot of people leech off the system, who have no REAL reason to....but when you're a single mom without any help at all....THAT'S what it's there for.....stuff like that (and not JUST that either). And my mom wants me to leech off of HER.....she said it's a better situation for the baby. I must do what's right for him, and if I have a better life by mooching off of her then ok, that's what I do, and I do about 50% of the house work around here, help her out with the cleaning and laundry and the yard work....and she appreciates the help and gets to see her grand son all the time (except for work).


And you didn't cover anything about who's gonna watch the baby ^_~

[Tiffany]

How can I? My friends (even though they loathed it) had babysitters come to the house and watch the children. But that's a personal preference. It's how bad you want to be able to personally provide for your child.

My one friend who was having a hard time with it, rationalized it to the fact that even though 'strangers' were taking care of her daughter, she was able to provide for her. She'll never have to look at her daughter and say "I just can't do/provide/get that for her".

Either or, there's no shame in staying home, nor is there any shame about going back to work.

So there's no possible way I can argue that you can have someone look after your baby. You CAN. You just choose/prefer not to. So that's a personal prefrence, your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Curious though, what are you going to do when your baby is old enough to be in school... if you're still living with your mother?

[Hecate]

I'll be out by then on my own. Once I'm out of here I'll probably get a babysitter whether or not my mother likes it, unless she wants to change jobs to match my sched. But once I get my license and GED, I'm probably gonna have to hold off on the surgery till next year and get into Tech school and get a job right out fo that. After saving money for a bit, I'm gonna be getting an apartment with my boyfriend. He should be moved back up here by then and get his X-ray tech job at one of the hospitals.

For my driving...and I KNOW this is an irrational fear so don't bash me on this, I've already been told this and that.....but I think it's STUPID to risk the life of a child just to go somewhere. They always taught us pre-driving that when you drive, you're risking your own life as well as everyone else in the car. I don't fear my own skills, I'm ok at driving, but I fear the crazy drivers out there. A car accident almost happened here on Saturday, and a child in the front seat without a belt on was involved too....lucky they didn't roll, woulda been killed. His mom had excellent driving skills and prevented them from crashing.....they were swerving to miss a trailer blindly backing out of the neighbor's driveway.

PERSONALLY, I think a little increase wouldn't be TOO bad. I see my mom's point in raising prices, which the difference in price would take the difference in the paycheck, so there's no real up or down there except making a few extra pennies to save up. I dunno if I'm gonna get a job DURING school or not, because Wes needs me, it's MY job to raise him, not anyone else's, and my mom will still be making me mooch off of her and I get EVERYTHING for Wes through my welfare payments, except for the big stuff for him to play with, those are presents from Nana that I pay her back partly for. I already owe her 200 for stuff.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Secret Azn Man

There is no point in discussing this further. The mere fact you fail to accept my anecdotal evidences as facts shows you lack experience in the real world of lower class economics. Anyone who has practical first-hand experiences and observations will agree with me. Theories be damned. Your theories aren't exactly based on actual premises. Not even from your own experience, which you obviously lack.

If you are going to invalidate my arguments by saying I failed to prove my anecdotal evidence as facts, then I'm gonna invalidate yours by pointing out all of your reasonings aren't based on provable, observable evidences, if any evidences or premises at all. You support your reasonings with assumptions that you agree with. And that also, your reasonings assumes that what YOU percieve to be as logical, is agreed everywhere.

You can use logical reasonings all you want. But it will fail you if you base your logic on invalid premises. It will fail if you do not take into account every variables. And it will fail if assume your logic is universally adhered.

Your theories are based on a very narrow set of premises that are hypothetical, and assumed true When in fact there are not. Your theories does not take into account other variables that complicates your simple assumptions. Which there are many. And your theories assumes that what you percieve to be as logical and sound is applicable to the situations we are discussing. Which is not the case.

Therefore, as I have been saying over and over, your theories may sound logical, but not only will it fail, it already fails and has failed before when others came up with the same solution.

This topic is done. There's nothing new you nor I can bring up anymore that will change our arguments. But hey, if you feel you're right, do the world a favor and apply your theories. God knows everyone wants you to be right so we can solve this age old problem once and for all.

Haha, of course! Quite right.

I wouldn't be surprised if unintended consequences crept up on my theory in real life, but my proposals are what I'd like to start with and then adjust. Hopefully, in a pragmatic sort of way. If the real world happenings turn out to be what you claim then I'd happily reject my theory and try something different.

Dare I say, it is impossible to factor in all variables. There are so many in the world that no one policy will help everyone. Instead, I prefer policies which aim to maximize economic welfare, which doesn't necessarily mean helping the majority in the short run.

Well, this was interesting. You're right - we have no more to discuss without getting repetitive.

[Chez Daja]

It's hard enough to live...

It's much worse where I come from then in America. You need to pay £300 + for a small ****ing BEDSIT. Now, I would only get minimum wage because I am still in my late teens. I was home educated because I was severely bullied, and being bought out of school and taught by my mother and myself means I am not entitled to a good job.

Now, the problem is, I may be having to move out of my parents' soon -- of course they don't want to pay for me to live here forever. But how the hell am I meant to live off a small amount of cash per month when I wouldn't even be able to afford £300+ for the apartment, let alone food,w ater, and electric, and all the other little taxes.

This doesnt have much point, except to point out the hardships given to people that are in my situation, who may be moved out of home and onto the streets just because I'm a teenager. Working three jobs doesn't appeal to me, but if I have to? Then so be it, but there's more likliness of people like me having to live on the streets because of lack of money.

However, I do not think minimum wage should be raised. I just don't think it should be dropped lower either.


Oh and before anybody bashes me, this was indirection of anybody, just speaking up for other people like me.


I may not hold a valid or accurate point, but I would like to let others know of how hard it is to live already without taxes each year being raised. If minimum wage was raised here, w00t for us! But still... I hold my first "point", if you can even call it that...

[SwodeG]

But if wages go higher, then so does cost of living. You can't have one without the other. I guess you could if you were a skilled worker.

[Tiffany]

Cost of living raises regardless of an increase in the minimum wage. Ever hear of inflation?

Stuff is more expensive now, than it was 2 years ago.

[Hecate]

Inflation will always happen. The JOBS that are paid minimum wage, yes, we need, and watch when it DOES happen because people don't have two brain cells to rub together, you'll see prices WILL go up in stores and fast food places in order to pay the new amount, or lay people off because they can't make enough to hold that many workers. PAPER PUSHERS are the ones who sign the FRONT of the minimum wage pay checks....and minimum wage jobs weren't created for people to live off of their entire lives. It's not fair that a store clerk gets paid as much as a DR, that's just communism, and we all know from our history lessons that communism doesn't work....so if you think you should be paid a lot for not investing in your education to invest in a better life, go to a communist country and see how you like it there.

Flame and bash me all you want, because you just wait and see what happens, and if you deny it when it does, then you only have one brain cell.

In-fact our minimum wage is not even close to what is SHOULD be. The cost of living is much higher than what minimum job can pay for. They have it at the lowest possible rate, and let land lords higher their rates. Now an days you have to have saved up to even get an apt., and most of the time if you only make min. wage they will not let you rent out. I live in the cheapest apt. with no car payments, and it gets really tight come the end of the month, and we make slightly more than min. wage. That is just how the system works. Fact is if you did not have people that did min. wage jobs there would be no production in America. They do not just make "lazy people jobs" as you so put, just so lazy people can have stuff to do. You feed you fat ****ing faces with our burgers on the way to your pencil pushing jobs so quit ****ing whining. Fact is we do have a job, an a right to ask for a raise just as much as you people

[Hecate]

Like I said, Minimum wage jobs don't exist so people can live off of them. CAREERS were made so people can live off of them. Why be rewarded for something you don't invest in and work towards?? High school degree or GED....yeah, that's a step....but you can't live off of it. You get that so you can go to college to get a job you CAN live off of. There are grants and financial aid and scholarships, there's even a college out there where if you can't pay to go, you can go for free. I saw a commercial for it. Minimum wage job to help you pay college, pay for books, or you're old and can't do too much.....THAT is what jobs are for, people starting out, but they aren't made to last.