Catholicism = Christianity?

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by James

The Catholic Church was started by Peter. He was closer to the Bible than Martin Luther was. The Catholic Church was also responsible for keeping the Bible in tact for the hundreds of years of Dark Ages. There is no debate as to whether or not the Catholic Church omits rules they do not like, but every sect of every religion did that. If everyone went exactly to their book, there would be one sect.

There's a difference in "exactly to the book" and "following the Bible" -- you're right, there would only be one "sect" (you mean denomination?) if they all translated it the same. But mistranslations and manipulations, along with additions, aren't "following the Bible" at all.

Following the Bible a different way would make them a different denomination. There are plenty of those. Not following the Bible would make them a different religion.

Originally Posted by Sean

Baptism is the first step into entering the religion, and it "washes away" or, forgives you, of the original sin you are born with, that sin which was comitted by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. That's what "Baptism as a forgiveness of sins" means.

Baptism is a symbollic representation of one's acceptance of Christ's forgiveness. Baptism alone doesn't mean a thing. A person of the Christian faith that hasn't been baptised and still get into Heaven -- a person that's been baptised but doesn't have faith still doesn't have faith, and thus can't get into Heaven. Dude.

Confirmation is how one publicly announces their acceptance of Christ, this usually occurs in 7th-8th grade (12-14 years old). 99% of Christians are baptized at birth, so how can one whom is less than a year old publicly announce something when they don't even know what their announcing?

You're thinking Catholic. Most Christian denominations don't have "Confirmation". And Confirmation isn't to publicly announce their faith, either. Prettymuch, it's to say that the person is through with their young stage of learning and ready to become a normal, mature member of the church and continue with adult training.

You're also probably thinking Catholic on the "baptized at birth" thing, but that's Christening. Some Christians also do that, but it's to symbolize that they are handing the child's life over to God.

The bible states there's a certain "standard of living" (ten commandments anyone?) one most have in order to be allowed into heaven.

It says there are ten basic commandments. Ten big rules. Later, Jesus gives two -- love God with everything, and love your neighbor as yourself. This does not guarantee passage into Heaven. Nowhere does it say "The only way to Heaven is through Jesus, unless you try to be a good person."

You can't just be a dickhead your entire life, kill, rape, pillage, steal, ect ect, and then one day say "I believe in Christ!" and be allowed into heaven. It doesn't work that way.

Actually, yes it does work that way. If you truly believe, you are forgiven, no matter what you've done in the past. One sin is enough to keep us out of Heaven, so we have to be forgiven, no matter who we are. It doesn't matter if you're Mother Teresa or Joseph Stalin, we're still unworthy of Heaven without forgiveness. And if Joseph Stalin had converted on his death bed and accepted Christ, seriously, he would be a Christian just like any other Christian. Seem fair? No. But that's the way it works.

All of Christianity is based off of the Old Testament. All of Christianity follows what the Old Testament says, including the Jehova's Witnesses. They may follow the New Testamaent more, but it's easier to do so when the New Testament is a good 3-4 times larger than the OT.

Really? Christianity follows everything the Old Testament says? When was the last time your local church held a stoning rally? How many Christians do you know of that only eat Kosher foods?

The Old Testament is used by Christians for history, worship, and rules. What's right and wrong. In the New Testament, some of these rules were taken out (i.e. "unclean" foods), but more importantly, the idea of Salvation changed completely. No longer did we have to offer sacrifices to earn Heaven -- we had the ultimate sacrifice for us, the one spotless lamb, Jesus. Jesus Christ (whom Christianity is entirely based off of) wasn't in the Old Testament, though countless prophecies foretold his existence. Ever seen the little pocket Bibles the Gideons and such hand out? Usually it's not a complete Bible, it's the New Testament plus Psalms and Proverbs from the Old Testament. If one's religion is entirely the New Testament, they are Christian, though they may not know much of their history, worship methods, rules, etc. If one's religion is entirely the Old Testament, they are Jewish.

Alright, let me get out the closest Bible I have. Old Testament is pages 1 - 832. New Testament is pages 835 - 1076. 242 pages for the New Testament, and 832 pages for the Old Testament. But the New Testament is so much easier to follow only because it's so much larger, right?

[Lover Boy]

I called several churches because I figured a father of the Catholic faith would know better if his religion is a sect of Christianity better than a bunch of pretentious teenagers.

Turns out, you don't have a chance in HELL of calling a church on a Sunday. You'd figure that's when there would be MORE people, but you'd be wrong!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

The Old Testament is used by Christians for history, worship, and rules. What's right and wrong

That's pretty much what I said. Then you put words in my... keyboard. Remember where I said this?

Originally Posted by Sean

All of Christianity is based off of the Old Testament. All of Christianity follows what the Old Testament says, including the Jehova's Witnesses.

Yeah. I'm sorry you decided to interperate it as "Everything they did Christians still do."

Lutherans, a sect of Christianity, also have confirmation.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Alright, let me get out the closest Bible I have. Old Testament is pages 1 - 832. New Testament is pages 835 - 1076. 242 pages for the New Testament, and 832 pages for the Old Testament. But the New Testament is so much easier to follow only because it's so much larger, right?

Whopsee. I thought I remembered the New Testament being bigger. Oh well, my point still holds. The NT is also followed more because of the first 4 books, the gospels by matthew mark luke and john, which just so happened to be taught by, gasp, Catholics! As well as Lutherans.

I'm sorry, but I doubt a vengeful God such as the one shown in the bible will say "Okay. You killed 5,000 of my children, but since you're sorry, you can come to heaven." You have to pay for your sins, one way or another. Truly repenting doesn't fix shit.

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by Sean

Whopsee. I thought I remembered the New Testament being bigger. Oh well, my point still holds. The NT is also followed more because of the first 4 books, the gospels by matthew mark luke and john, which just so happened to be taught by, gasp, Catholics! As well as Lutherans.

The New Testament is followed more by Christianity because it is Christianity. The Gospels go into the life and death of Jesus Christ, which is what the entire religion is based off. The rest of the New Testament goes into what Christian behavior, worship, and belief should be -- and all of it underlines Revelations, which details when Jesus returns.

I'm sorry, but I doubt a vengeful God such as the one shown in the bible will say "Okay. You killed 5,000 of my children, but since you're sorry, you can come to heaven." You have to pay for your sins, one way or another. Truly repenting doesn't fix shit.

...actually, yes, it does. We don't have to "pay for our sins" anymore. Jesus did that for us -- the ultimate sacrifice, the only perfect being.

Now, you could believe that repenting and being forgiven doesn't get you into Heaven ... but that wouldn't be the way the Bible and Christianity believe.

[Sean]

The New Testament is followed more by Christianity because it is Christianity. The Gospels go into the life and death of Jesus Christ, which is what the entire religion is based off. The rest of the New Testament goes into what Christian behavior, worship, and belief should be -- and all of it underlines Revelations, which details when Jesus returns.

Again, you're telling me things I already know. I went to a Catholic school for 7 years and a Lutheran school for a year.

Now, you could believe that repenting and being forgiven doesn't get you into Heaven ... but that wouldn't be the way the Bible and Christianity believe.

And that is that I believe, as far as my interpertation of the bible in concerned.

I don't follow any one religion, anyhow. nor do I even believe in the trinity, Jesus' divinity, or one all mighty being overseeing the lives of every human.

To me religion is man's way of trying to explain something they couldn't figure out. How did we get here? What happens when we die? Let's make shit up and say it's true. That's religion to me. Some of it, the morality lessons in it, are valid, but to me the rest is garbage.

[Rikkuffx]

They are different religions because they have different belifs.but Catholicism is a branch of christianity.Followers of Christianity formed Catholicism because they did not believe in thos ebeliefs so they rewrote their own.I was taught this in world history.Because all religions are a branch of christianity.Christianity was the first religion,and every other religion got their ideas from Christians.They just changed a few things.

[Alizée Jacotey]

Originally Posted by Rikkuffx

They are different religions because they have different belifs.but Catholicism is a branch of christianity.Followers of Christianity formed Catholicism because they did not believe in thos ebeliefs so they rewrote their own.I was taught this in world history.Because all religions are a branch of christianity.Christianity was the first religion,and every other religion got their ideas from Christians.They just changed a few things.

This is insulting.

The first religion is not Christianity. The gods of Sumer were probably part of the first religion, but the oldest religion that is still around today is Hinduism. Christianity is a religion that borrows from Jewish beliefs. Sorry kid, but your statement is painfully wrong.

[Chez Daja]

Originally Posted by Rikkuffx

They are different religions because they have different belifs.but Catholicism is a branch of christianity.Followers of Christianity formed Catholicism because they did not believe in thos ebeliefs so they rewrote their own.I was taught this in world history.Because all religions are a branch of christianity.Christianity was the first religion,and every other religion got their ideas from Christians.They just changed a few things.

Erm. No? No offence, that was a little immature.
James in right, that's wrong. Heh, maybe you heard wrong.
Also, no religions are a "copy" of Christanity. Just because some other religions were formed after Christianity does NOT mean they "copied" it. I have Jewish, Catholic and Hindu friends, who would be pretty insulted if they read that, y'know.

[Blacksmith]

I think she misinterpreted what her teacher said. Now, there IS some truth in it, but no religion is copied from christianity, really. See, there are a lot of religions that have some of the same ideas of how things were created and whatever. Like some Austrailian black tribe believed in a God that created everything and what not and really had similar ways Christianity is based upon.

Other than that no other religion is like christianity at all.

[TomStrife]

Actually Christianity definately wasn't the first religion. I actually don't even believe Christianity is a religion but that is a story for another day.

People have always followed God and did what they told him to but no one was really a Christian until after Jesus died on the cross because the key point to getting saved is to have absolute faith He died for you.

Catholics came after Christians and basically have the same principles but the only problum is Catholics are too steep in tradition.

The Bible clearly states, in a spiritual sense of course, Call no one Father , Mary should be praised AMOUNG women (not above), ect.

The only real problum I see is that Catholics believe in order to get to Heaven you must believe Jesus died on the cross for you, and do good works.

[Dead & Grateful]

This is a stupid question. Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity. No question.

Martin Luther seperated his church from the Catholics, which started the whole system of denominations. Long story short, Catholicism came first. You can't say it's not a denomination because it's "too different".

End of discussion.

EDIT: Christianity is not a religion in itself. There are no "Christian" churches. There are Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, etc. churches. Christianity is just a group-term for all the denominations of people who believe that Jesus was our savior.