gays

[Blacksmith]

Originally Posted by hellbred

It probably pisses off straight people because to them it's sick, and gross, and weird and human beings just love to poke fun when they have the chance.

Secondly, religiously people are offended, especially Christians because it's against the faith. I'm Christian, but it's up to someone else to decide who they want to sleep and live with every night... not my business.

Basically... gay relations effect me NONE what-so-ever, therefore... as long as they aren't some way hurting my income, or my relationships...go for it if u like that.

That's basically my thoughts on that, I don't agree with what they do but they are human beings and I would treat them the same as a friend. However, I think the views on homosexuality are ruined when it comes to "prison", ya know? It's so pathetic guys will turn to that just because they gotta wait a few years before they can be set free to their wife, (if they still have one). Which also goes for women prisons too. Another problem is pedofiling. Men getting young boys and such IS really sick.

My personal thoughts on the matter though is most homosexuals, to me, just seem mislead or think the opposite sex will never take them no matter how they change. Pressure and shit can get to you, so it wouldn't surprise me. Along with other problems such as maybe they are VERY late bloomers or just have their own reasons or hatred for the opposite sex. How your life is lead and what has happened in your past make it who you are, so you can't stop it really. Let them do what they want as long as it doesn't effect me, as Hellbred said.

[Arkaine]

Ok..here goes...you don't have to accept it...you don't have to agree with it..you don't have to approve of it...you don't have to worry about it. It really is none of your concern what people do or don't do with the same or the opposite sex. Did it ever occur to you that you being with a different sex partner is just a disgusting or ridiculous to them as their choices are to you. Who are you really to infringe your beleifs on others. Are you really so all important in the grand scheme of things that the way the majority does things has to be right. Are you so far above reproach that you feel you have the right to deem what other people do is right or not right? Where do you get off and who exactly do you think you are. You are all worse than these darn right wing conservative jackmos that run this country.

Oh and for all those out there with religious reasons for thinking that gays don't have the same rights as others. You pompous..self-righteous morons. You judge and you judge..but you forget that by your own religions that the only people that have the right to judge are God and Jesus...not you! So every time you blast them for being gay or different, you are commiting the sin of pride that you are like unto God. That you have the right to judge others. You are all a guilty of heresy. And then for any of you that have read the bible in it's entirety you would have realized that the great thing that the good Lord gave us that makes us different from all the other creatures of the earth is...FREE WILL... what we choose to do with it is our own responsibility and we must pay the consequences...however..if you don't approve of what they do then you don't have to pay the consequences or reap the benefits of their actions...so leave them alone..it's none of your business. You are not God..you are not Jesus.. "Let he who hath no sin cast the first stone..."

Now for you tried and true Americans..patriotic to the core...who think that these people are wrong and are a gross appartion of the decline of these United States....Well..you are bunch of hippocrites as well, and I'll tell you why. It's in the very documents that created this country. and I quote "....that all men are created equal...." and "...certain inalienable rights, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." it doesn't say the pursuit of happiness as long as it is with a member of the opposite sex. Those of you who judge them are all hippocrits and traitors...that's right traitors to those very beliefs that started this country that we were once so proud of. It's amazing how we cling to our rights as if they were holy, but have no qualm about stomping on the rights of others. Now some of you are probably thinking that I'm guilty of the same transgression, well you are right, I am, but at least I don't have the unmitigated gaul to pretend that I'm not. You have the right to voice your opinion...freedom of speech...and all that but that doesn't mean that your opinion is right....or that mine is for that matter. But I do know that at least I try not to judge others or step on their rights too much which is more than I can say for most of the population.

The closest we came to the American dream was the 9/11 disaster for the first time in over a hundred years we were all brought together as a unified force in the wake of this terrible tragedy. However, it didn't take us long to get back to our selfish ways did it...where was that nationwide unity when the Hurricanes hit Louisiana and South Texas...the response was regional at best. So let's not fool ourselves. We are all traitors and we are all self serving.

In closing...they are gay...so what...you aren't dating them, you don't have to marry them...butthey have the same rights and priviliges as everyone else and anyone who says otherwise is a heritic and a traitor to the founding beliefs of this country. Leave them alone and worry more about your own failings for they are numerous!

[TomStrife]

Originally Posted by Jintatsu

You're honestly offended because I find the book of Genesis boring? Now that is immature. So sorry for having a differing opinion than yourself. All better now?

Haha.

I`m immature?!

Do you want to know what immaturity is. Being completely defiant and continuing this conversation after me telling you it was off topic and should be discussed through PM.

I never said I was offended either. I said don`t bash my religion publicly.
Consider this little mini off topic conversation over.

EDIT: I do aplogize on the part that the PM was a suggestion not a demand. And I wasn`t aware that I said what you did was immature beforehand. I do aplogize.

[Kinney]

Reading all your posts it almost makes me wanna kick the ass of some people. What do you have against gay people? What if they want to have sex with each other? What if they want to be with somebody way older than them? What if they love each other? Is it against the law? Is it bad for your health? Heck no! So let them do what they want to do, if they love each other that is all I need to know and it is all it should be about! I they want to kiss, fine for me! I've seen more then a 100 gay couples kissing and believe me, when I started thinking about it, it was really cute.

[Sasquatch]

Holy hell. Now, people that think homosexuality is immoral aren't just Bible-thumpers and homophobes, but heretics and traitors? How outrageous can we get, here?

Originally Posted by Arkaine32

Ok..here goes...you don't have to accept it...you don't have to agree with it..you don't have to approve of it...you don't have to worry about it. It really is none of your concern what people do or don't do with the same or the opposite sex. Did it ever occur to you that you being with a different sex partner is just a disgusting or ridiculous to them as their choices are to you. Who are you really to infringe your beleifs on others.

Who's "infringing their beliefs on others"? (You mean "impose"?) I'm not asking everybody else to think homosexuality is wrong. I honestly don't care what you think about it. Sure, I may disagree, and would rather have everybody in the world hold the same opinions as I do (as we all would), but I'm not demanding that anybody follows the same standards as I do. And I wouldn't have to worry about it, except for the fact that most homosexuals are pushing for special rights. Keep to themselves, and I have no problem with it. Push for "rights" that nobody else has, and they become a burden. (That applies to any people, not just homosexuals.)

Are you really so all important in the grand scheme of things that the way the majority does things has to be right. Are you so far above reproach that you feel you have the right to deem what other people do is right or not right? Where do you get off and who exactly do you think you are. You are all worse than these darn right wing conservative jackmos that run this country.

There's plenty that I could say here, but I think you've said more than enough, yourself. I wouldn't think that what is natural is determined by those "darn right wing conservative jackmos". I don't think any of us think we're "all important" or "above reproach", but that doesn't mean anything. If nobody should say that anything is wrong, who are you to say that I'm wrong?

Oh and for all those out there with religious reasons for thinking that gays don't have the same rights as others. You pompous..self-righteous morons. You judge and you judge..but you forget that by your own religions that the only people that have the right to judge are God and Jesus...not you!

This is a vivid display of either a complete misunderstanding or a deliberate manipulation of the Bible (which doesn't surprise me). Nobody is "judging" any homosexuals to eternal damnation. But we don't have to -- God handles that. Our mission, as Christians on earth, is to live by and spread His Word -- which includes homosexuality being a sin. So, while we're not "judging" at all, those of us that believe homosexuality to be a sin are just relaying God's judgement.

So every time you blast them for being gay or different, you are commiting the sin of pride that you are like unto God.

We were all made in God's own image. We are like God, in ways. Homosexuality is a choice or condition that pulls people farther from God. Not only is it unnatural, it's immoral according to the Bible -- and you can't realistically expect people who follow the Bible to condone something the Bible itself condemns.

And then for any of you that have read the bible in it's entirety you would have realized that the great thing that the good Lord gave us that makes us different from all the other creatures of the earth is...FREE WILL... what we choose to do with it is our own responsibility and we must pay the consequences...however..if you don't approve of what they do then you don't have to pay the consequences or reap the benefits of their actions...so leave them alone..it's none of your business. You are not God..you are not Jesus.. "Let he who hath no sin cast the first stone..."

What the story of executing a prostitute has to do with saying homosexuality is wrong, I just don't know. But don't expect us to sit back and say "we love you, and we love every sin that you do"[/i]. Ever heard "hate the sin, love the sinner"? As I said, Christians have an obligation to spread the Word -- which includes Biblical morality.

It's in the very documents that created this country. and I quote "....that all men are created equal...." and "...certain inalienable rights, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..."

If you're going to quote the Declaration of Independence, at least take the time to look it up, if you don't have any of it memorized, and get the quotes right.

it doesn't say the pursuit of happiness as long as it is with a member of the opposite sex.

So what does it say about marriage?

Those of you who judge them are all hippocrits and traitors...that's right traitors to those very beliefs that started this country that we were once so proud of.

The "beliefs that started this country" are Christian beliefs.

The closest we came to the American dream was the 9/11 disaster for the first time in over a hundred years we were all brought together as a unified force in the wake of this terrible tragedy.

Funny, I didn't know Pearl Harbor happened over a hundred years ago.

where was that nationwide unity when the Hurricanes hit Louisiana and South Texas...the response was regional at best.

Hurricane relief didn't reflect nationwide apathy nearly as much as it reflected local incompetence. Louisiana not only ignored maintenence of levees for decades in favor of shifting funds to tourism and Mardi Gras, they ignored the known coming threat, then bitched about Bush when they were caught off guard. Texas, on the other hand -- which is run by those "darn right wing conservative jackmos" -- was fully prepared for it and handled it pretty well.

Originally Posted by Kinney

Is it bad for your health? Heck no!

Actually, anal sex is more likely than vaginal sex to spread STDs and blood-borne diseases.

[Kinney]

I didnt mean it that way, I was talking about the people who are against gay people, is it bad for THEIR health? No!

[Arkaine]

Well you were so meticulous about picking my post apart, I thought I would return the favor point for point....starting with...

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Holy hell. Now, people that think homosexuality is immoral aren't just Bible-thumpers and homophobes, but heretics and traitors? How outrageous can we get, here?

The question of this post was not who thinks it's immoral but whether or not they deserve the same rights as so called normal people. If it were about the morality of homosexuality then you would have had some very good points. However this was not the focus of this thread.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Who's "infringing their beliefs on others"? (You mean "impose"?) I'm not asking everybody else to think homosexuality is wrong. I honestly don't care what you think about it. Sure, I may disagree, and would rather have everybody in the world hold the same opinions as I do (as we all would), but I'm not demanding that anybody follows the same standards as I do. And I wouldn't have to worry about it, except for the fact that most homosexuals are pushing for special rights. Keep to themselves, and I have no problem with it. Push for "rights" that nobody else has, and they become a burden. (That applies to any people, not just homosexuals.)

They are not asking you to follow their standards no am I asking you to follow mine...and as far as special rights...I fail to see how the right for two people to marry that are in love is a SPECIAL right. Sure they may not be religiously married but there is no reason that they can't be legally married. They aren't asking for anything special, just the same right as couples anywhere. I suppose that when women pushed for the right to vote and blacks pushed for equal rights that they were pushing for special rights too huh? And you dare to pull my thoughts apart.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

There's plenty that I could say here, but I think you've said more than enough, yourself. I wouldn't think that what is natural is determined by those "darn right wing conservative jackmos". I don't think any of us think we're "all important" or "above reproach", but that doesn't mean anything. If nobody should say that anything is wrong, who are you to say that I'm wrong?

Had you qouted the end of my post here then you would have realized that I said that I could be and am often wrong but at least I have the gumption to admit it. Once again I wasn't saying that anyone was wrong for thinking that homosexuality was a sin or for thinking that it isn't. That wasn't the point...the point was that it was wrong to deny them their rights because of it.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

This is a vivid display of either a complete misunderstanding or a deliberate manipulation of the Bible (which doesn't surprise me). Nobody is "judging" any homosexuals to eternal damnation. But we don't have to -- God handles that. Our mission, as Christians on earth, is to live by and spread His Word -- which includes homosexuality being a sin. So, while we're not "judging" at all, those of us that believe homosexuality to be a sin are just relaying God's judgement.We were all made in God's own image. We are like God, in ways. Homosexuality is a choice or condition that pulls people farther from God. Not only is it unnatural, it's immoral according to the Bible -- and you can't realistically expect people who follow the Bible to condone something the Bible itself condemns.What the story of executing a prostitute has to do with saying homosexuality is wrong, I just don't know. But don't expect us to sit back and say "we love you, and we love every sin that you do"[/i]. Ever heard "hate the sin, love the sinner"? As I said, Christians have an obligation to spread the Word -- which includes Biblical morality.

First of all I don't deliberately manipulate anything, including the Bible, that particular feat has been accomplished quite well by the churches of this world. No one would know the true word of God if it walked up and hit them in the face! Mostly because of the fact that the Church which has a history of powerful and devious men at various points of power (this includes all churches) and who has done most of the translation, man right, who is by definition flawed. But again this is not the point...you wish to argue the morality of the situation and that is not the point. The point is whether they should have the same legal rights to marriage, adoption, etc...
And back to the "Like unto God" bit...yes in many ways man is like God he created us in his own image...however, have you ever heard the story of the Tower of Babel. The sin of the poeple there was making themselves "like unto God" as if as mere men they had attained God's level of grace. That was the point of the sin. The story of executing a prostitute has nothing to do with saying homosexuality is wrong, it has to do with so called Christians judging homosexuals. And you deliberately misqoute as well. You do not have to "judge" someone to eternal damnation to be judging them in sin. But good try. Way to attempt to deflect the issue. BTW ever heard of the separation of church and state???

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

If you're going to quote the Declaration of Independence, at least take the time to look it up, if you don't have any of it memorized, and get the quotes right.So what does it say about marriage?The "beliefs that started this country" are Christian beliefs.

Yes, I'll give you the first part of this one...I should have looked it up...at one point I did have it memorized, however one's brain tends to become clouded in the heat of the moment. However the second half of this statement is only PARTIALLY correct. The beliefs that started this country are the beliefs of Christians, but also the beliefs that people should not be persecuted because of their beliefs regardless of what they are. So you are only half correct. And call me crazy, but denying them the right to marriage and adoption sounds like persecution to me.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Funny, I didn't know Pearl Harbor happened over a hundred years ago.

Oh and funny you should mention Pearl Harbor..since we took most of the Japanese-Americans and put them in what translated into camps during that whole fiasco of a war. And who isn't guilty of a little exaggeration now and then. You certainly are and so am I and so are 90 percent of the people we have met or known. The time frame wasn't meant to be literal, it was an intentional exaggeration. Take a creative writing class and you'll see what I mean.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Hurricane relief didn't reflect nationwide apathy nearly as much as it reflected local incompetence. Louisiana not only ignored maintenence of levees for decades in favor of shifting funds to tourism and Mardi Gras, they ignored the known coming threat, then bitched about Bush when they were caught off guard. Texas, on the other hand -- which is run by those "darn right wing conservative jackmos" -- was fully prepared for it and handled it pretty well.

Yes greedy men are stupid, and Texas handled it well..but it is so easy to handle something that you've already handled once in the last month or two. By the time Texas got hit they already had the practice of taking care of the Louisiana situation, since we in Texas did most of the work. And people donated sure. But there wasn't a nationwide cry of outrage at the problem. Why because Louisanna is a bunch of stupid southern hicks? or because they weren't bombed by terrorists. Oh well it was just a natural disaster, a lot of people lost their lives and homes and just about everything they ever had, but that in no way compares to 9/11 right? And you don't think that national apathy had anything to do with the relief effort being hindered...well let's see how many states harbored the majority of the evacuees from Katrina and Rita two of the worst natural disasters to hit this country. Hmmm 3...maybe 4. That's a far cry short of 48. And yes incompetence played a big role. But again the only reason Texas faired so well is that they knew better what to expect and weren't hit nearly as hard as New Orleans. So that's kinda like comparing apples to grapefruits.

In conclusion, you took the time to pick apart my post from the issue of morality, however the morality is not the issue. The rights of people is, so before you pick a person's post apart as ridiculous, make sure you know what the true topic of the thread is and attack it from the right angle.

Have a nice day!

[Blacksmith]

Damn, triple post, guess it glitched or something. But as for the subject of marriage and adoption there are a few flaws with homosexuals in getting married. In fact, what advantage would they get by showing off that they are married? They pay the bullshit taxes everyone days for basic marriage and then what, have a family? Why do you think men have penis's and women have vagina's? One great purpose of marriage is to start a family and that requires someone who can CREATE life. Adoption is basically the easy way out. Sure I think homosexuals can parent children, but it isn't the point of marrying in the first place.

Marriage would be completely pointless for homosexuals either way, if they are in love and want to stay with each other forever you DON'T need to pay taxes to do so. Hell, I'm even of thinking of not marrying so that some of that shit won't effect me. But anyway, there is a point of starting a family NATURALLY which means if either gays or lesbians cannot have children "Naturally" then, as said, there is no point to it. You can't get the same ideal as you can with male/female marriage. Which is also funny considering a lot of homosexuals want to get married cause they love each other, which contradicts the whole "family" subject.

I mean as much as I'm not a christian there is a reason there is only TWO genders here. If homosexual was so natural for some people there would be NO problem whatsoever. Course I don't like the influence bashing, beating, or killing of homosexuals some people have, but there is nothing natural about it. In a matter it's kind of like the civil war. People didn't want to accept another race of color so they made a immature war about it, but the thing is this isn't just skin deep.

There are things at a perfect balance no matter unfair the world is, everything is connected. You try and break that connection and everything goes out of control. Though do you know why homosexuals are...I suppose disliked within the christian world? In the old days of the bible, (in the actual history), men would go into your home and rape you without any consent (just like prison). Now I'm not saying homosexuals will do that, but the percentage of homosexual rape may increase if we accept this type of society...and is that a good thing even though we already have pedofiles?

One last thing though. Even though this is a "intellectual debate", I don't think you should take this THAT seriously. People who bash who and what shouldn't post, but this isn't a place to discuss real life issues like the U.N. will actually do what we say. I know there are a lot of people keen on the subject that get heated easily, but it's better to really just hold it back.

I'll end this by quoting Hellbred, "Hate the sin, love the sinners."

[Chez Daja]

^What.the.****.

What the? Marriage is pointless if you can't squeeze out babies? Children in adoption homes don't matter? So answer me this, smartass, what about STRAIGHT couples that can't HAVE children? Is it pointless for them to get married, just because a guy shooting his load into his wife doesn't give them a kid? By the way, I'm half-raced. Yeah, that's right, I'm a HALF-BREED, start a war against me, why don't you?

Some people get married because they feel it bonds them more, or brings them closer. That's SOME, not ALL. Yes, many do marry to start a family. Oh, is this a good time to mention, I'm not only a half-bred troublemaker, I was also BORN OUT OF WEDLOCK. Yeah. I was born BEFORE my parents got married. Oops. That's my fault for being born, right?

No. You're wrong. You're outlook on marriage is only HALF true. You should think of people like me, who were born out of wedlock. Or think about couples who want to be closer bonded by marriage. Your post not only infuriated me, it's even upset me a little. How can anybody be so close-minded? I'm half-Polish, half-British, and I agree with gay love or marriage. If they legalised gay marriage, then maybe homosexuals wouldnt raise such an issue or make a big thing about wanting to get married. It's so easy. But no, you have to go and spit on that because you don't think it's right.

I have no problem with your opinions, but I'm just appaled. Oh, and also, I have no problem with people who have religious beliefs. That's your faith, and I understand that. But to put down people for loving one another... it's just wrong. I assume, Devil, you're a guy, so... what if the world was gay, and you were the only straight person in the world... How would you feel if you and your girlfriend were kept apart or bashed for being in love? Would it cause you stress? Upset? Wouldn't you want to shut out everything they said?

I guess, in saying this, that WILL never happen. I suppose it's just a sad subject...

[Blacksmith]

^LOL

Wow you took my post entirely out of contacts. If you want me to get more detailed about it my point was you can't find the truth of family of marriage in being the same sex. It really just isn't possible. I mean it's like trying to use a sword as a boomerang, it doesn't come back. Marriage is not about homosexual love, even if married couples who can't have children may have to adopt, but THEY have a reason. Marriage is partially about family, partially about love, and partially about raising kids. Can homosexuals do this? They sure can. Is it really worth it? No not really. There would be too much drama with the whole thing and like I said, it isn't natural.

And yes I know what I'm talking about cause I have an uncle that is gay and I've met his boyfriend, nice guy. But is he happy? Not at all. There is no point in marriage with homosexuality, that's just it. If homosexuals want to love another person, go right ahead, but marriage is a step you can only get from yes...straight people. Course everyone has their problems and not all marriage relationships are good, you just can't get the same feeling or understanding with the same sex. God didn't create a homosexual being, evolution didn't create a third gender, guess that just leaves people with TWO.

And so what, you're a half-breed...whoopdy shit. Would I start a war about it? Na, that'd be a waste of time. As for the last part, fortunetly the world isn't gay, so your analogy is wasted. Though what would be funny is if the world was gay (let's say during old ages as well), we would all die out because reproduction would be cut off. Anyway IF I was the only straight guy alive continued to be bashed I could one thing...not give a flying ****. Seriously, homosexuals are so damned sensitive about the subject I'd actually have more respect for them if they stopped whining about it. Maybe they should stand up for themselves instead of letting people like you do it for them.

I'm a smartass indeed, gonna make a war about it?

[TomStrife]

Originally Posted by Kinney

Reading all your posts it almost makes me wanna kick the ass of some people. What do you have against gay people? What if they want to have sex with each other? What if they want to be with somebody way older than them? What if they love each other? Is it against the law? Is it bad for your health? Heck no! So let them do what they want to do, if they love each other that is all I need to know and it is all it should be about! I they want to kiss, fine for me! I've seen more then a 100 gay couples kissing and believe me, when I started thinking about it, it was really cute.

Reading your posts makes me enraged. Allow me to comment on everything you just said.

1) What do I have against Gay People?

NOTHING! ALLOW ME TO MAKE THIS CLEAR:

I have absolutley nothing against homosexuals. I DO however have something against homosexuality. I also have something against cheating, lying, stealing, smoking, drinking, ect.

Does that mean I hate the people who are doing it?
Of course not.
I just don`t agree with WHAT their doing.

2) What if they want to have sex with each other?

That is out of my control and I have no comment towards it.

3) What if they want to be with someone older than them?

Kinney, could you have asked a question any less on topic?