What is up with this?

[Omega]

Another extremely broad topic. While I understand finding a connection in your past experiences between how drug users and suicide fiends feel about each other, I think they are completely different. I've done both, attempted suicide and done more drugs than I'd like to admit anymore.

Drugs to me are just an escape from reality. In my own experiences it was just such a deep need or want to feel something, while I look at my life or in deep analyzation I realize that I'm not looking for money, drugs, or sex, but actually love. Now it seems to of course be the ultimate thing that I lack, even within relationships I feel unfulfilled or my hunger for love not being handled. I don't do drugs anymore, but that's all it was for me. I just wanted to feel SOMETHING!! ANYTHING!!! I just felt empty all the time and I still do to some degree, but at this point I feel I'm just waiting to die because happiness or joy in general are the things which elude me it seems.

Drugs are nothing more than a temporary fix or solution to a problem that isn't going away and most likely never will. I don't believe in happy pills or counseling, I have found no comfort in either and I've tried both multiple times.

As far as Suicide, I indifference to a lot of pussies, respect the people that actually do it. People always come up with these self-justified reactions to suicide, thinking they are "taking the easy way out" or wussing out on life. Fu*k, could you actually kill yourself? Did you know pilots had cionide pills in there packs, in case they landed behind enemy lines, and instead of being shot or tortured they obviously had the option of taking there own lives?? Could you, if you had to? I don't know if I could, that's a huge thing to do. Actually taking your own life. No more forum, no more tv, no more music, no more work, school, no more gf/bf, no more waking up tomorrow. Could you do it?

I respect the people that do, because I think it takes a very strong person or personality to make that committed decision and actually follow through with it. Facing the great beyond, death, the unknown. It's rather intimidating to even me, and to actually feel death. Most people I think wander through life aimlessly, do you all know you're going to die? I wonder what it must feel like, and yet I sit here nearing my 30's thinking I wonder when I'll be getting calls saying my friends and family are dead.

I think suicide is tragic, but I think sometimes the pain people must feel is unbearable and I can't blame anyone for the decisions they make in regards to this subject. I can blame those who kill themselves for no reason, or for show, but those in true torturous pain, I can't even imagine what they must've gone through to get to that point.

[hellbred]

Originally Posted by Cobain

Did you know pilots had cionide pills in there packs, in case they landed behind enemy lines, and instead of being shot or tortured they obviously had the option of taking there own lives?? Could you, if you had to?

If I had to die I would. I wouldn't kill myself via pills, gun, or anything. Some people may find this an assh*le thing to say but even if my family or someone I loved were being threated unless I killed myself, I wouldn't.

It has nothing to do with being selfish, because trust me... my mother or my ex-girlfriend would be the first two people I'd GLADLY die for if I had to. However it's not in my religion to do so. I know I'll see them again some day, and taking my life and forfeit Heaven just wouldn't be an option to me.

[Omega]

Originally Posted by hellbred

It has nothing to do with being selfish, because trust me... my mother or my ex-girlfriend would be the first two people I'd GLADLY die for if I had to. However it's not in my religion to do so. I know I'll see them again some day, and taking my life and forfeit Heaven just wouldn't be an option to me.

Ok well I'm not going to enter into a fullscale theological debate with you, but I'm Catholic and the Catholic made up dogma of forfeiting Heaven for Purgatory to those who kill themselves is nowhere in the Word of God otherwise known as the Bible. It is not true, it was made up by man to discourage people from doing it.

So you must be of a different religion than Christian or Catholic.

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by Edward Elric

And suicide, I think, is not a coward's way out, but its the choice for people who have no patience. Suicide is almost always a spur of the moment thing, where they feel they can't take it anymore, and just stop. If someone thinks about suicide, if they just wait for 24 hours, at least, they will at least reconsider that choice.

Actually, that's not true. Most suicides are not "spur of the moment" decisions at all, but thought out over weeks, months, even years. Somebody comtemplating suicide won't "come to their senses" after thinking about it for a day, they'll think about it for quite a while before they decide to actually do it, and plan it. Trust me on that -- I struggle with patience, but that's no excuse for suicide.

And hellbred, Cobain's right. Suicide won't keep you from Heaven at all -- if you're saved, you're saved from all sins, and that includes those you haven't committed yet. Unless you believe in Purgatory, which is also unBiblical. (By the way Cobain, it's good to see a Catholic who realizes that some Catholic beliefs contradict Christianity.)

On the other hand, I don't see any way that suicide can be "courageous" in any form. While I don't hold it against somebody for taking their own life when the only alternative would be to be captured by an enemy and tortured -- I might do that myself, considering the idea that I don't know if I could hold up through the torture and not give away information that could be used against others I love -- I certainly don't compare physical torture to the "pain" of everyday life. Ninety-nine percent of this world isn't going through anything much more difficult than everybody else, and for them, there's no excuse.

(Hahahah. Three of the google ads are for Kurt Kerbang sites, and the other is for a suicide survey.)

[hellbred]

Originally Posted by Cobain

Ok well I'm not going to enter into a fullscale theological debate with you, but I'm Catholic and the Catholic made up dogma of forfeiting Heaven for Purgatory to those who kill themselves is nowhere in the Word of God otherwise known as the Bible. It is not true, it was made up by man to discourage people from doing it.

So you must be of a different religion than Christian or Catholic.

Well by telling me that I'm not Christian, I would hope you'd be willing to enter into a debate with me because you obviously have not read the entire bible. also I'd like to point out, the Bible was never meant to be fully understood by man. If it were so, man would read it once and never pick it up again. God intended for it to be researched, and read, until the end of time... so since you obviously haven't, I don't see how you can ever tell me the Bible fully does not state something.

Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own, you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

I believe taking your life is sin in itself. One of which you cannot repent for. Do I know for a fact that Sin grants you eternity in hell? No. Then again who does?

But in lou of your statement I also believe that if anyone truly turns to God, ask for forgiveness and accepts Jesus as their savior they are accepted into Heaven.

I forgot where but I think in Romans it says "nothing can separate a Christian from the love of God".... none the less, I do not think suicide is a smart decision for someone of true Christian belief.

[Sasquatch]

If you can't repent for suicide, then you wouldn't be forgiven for anything you haven't specifically asked forgiveness for. Which means that if you get cut off coming home from church on Sunday afternoon and think "that guy's a jerk", then get in a wreck and die, you wouldn't be forgiven for that last sin. Once is enough, you don't need to ask forgiveness every time you commit a sin -- if we had to do that, we'd never stop asking forgiveness.

As for Purgatory not being in the Bible -- regardless of whether or not Cobain has read the entire Bible -- which, by the way, you have no idea about -- I have, multiple times, and I've still found nothing on Purgatory, even after doing specific research into it.

And please -- one of nonbelievers' knocks on Christians is that we try to interpret some of the Bible literally, but say that some other parts of the Bible are supposed to be confusing. While Revelations and such isn't supposed to be interpreted in a literal sense, don't pull out the "you don't understand because God doesn't want you to" argument, because it doesn't help anything.

[LocoColt04]

Why does almost EVERY topic in the ID forum always resort to religion as a form of argument? This thread has nothing to do with the penalties of drugs or suicide; rather, it deals with one's thoughts on the subject. I'd greatly appreciate if the constant religious derailment of threads in this forum could come to a quick halt.

It's about your views of the acts, not your views of the religious afterlife consequences of said acts.

You guys wanted me to moderate ID a little more heavily? Sure, here you go.

[hellbred]

I never said Purgatory was mentioned in the Bible. In fact, I don't think a place such as Purgatory even exists. From what I've read, you either make it to Heaven, or you don't.

As for constant repenting, I'm not sure that asking for forgiveness every night before you sleep is requested, however... one can not commit murder at the age of 16... repent, then commit murder, and steal, and lie for the rest of his life without repenting. Therefore, regular repenting is neccesary.

The bible verse I stated above mentioned nothing of suicide. I posted it to clarify that the human body is not of our own, and it's something to be cherrised and respected. Suicide is a violation of that. As an avid reader of the Bible, I think you would agree it's a confusing collection of of writings... something that noone is intended on completely understanding. So declaring that one is completely knowledgeable about the inner workings of the Bible is, for the lack of better words, a lie. Whether this is used as arguement for nonbelievers or not -- countless verses from the Bible in fact have dual meanings. I was simply stating that, though the direct word of God does not state "Kill yourself, and suffer Hell." -- several times it mentions to cherish the body and the temple of God. What kind of God what he be to find no fault at all in taking your life before God says so.

It's about your views of the acts, not your views of the religious afterlife consequences of said acts.

My view on the act of suicide was that I wouldn't do it because of the outcome. Don't see how that's not related. Edit: And I think ID threads include religious discussions because most of the people who starte ID threads, start discussions which are based on morals, which are based on religion. Maybe thread-starters should declare whether or not religous responses should be allowed?

[Omega]

I'll reply breifly, as I stated I will not enter into a 10 page debate writing paragraph upon paragraph, and stating every section of the bible on either subject of the thread.

Loco - the reason why it gets to religion in this case, is because death relates to the afterlife, which then relates to what you believe in for an afterlife. You can't distinguish between the two, without the conversation leading into other areas like that, or this should be in General Discussion and not in ID. You need to expect discussions, questions, and sometimes arguments to actually occur.

Sasquatch - I have nothing really to say about your comments aside from thank you for pointing out that Hellbred has no clue how much of the bible I've read. Secondly I never said that suicide was "courageous" so don't misinterpret what I was saying, I just have respect for those who can actually do it.

Hellbred - I've read nearly every word of the bible, I think I have 50 pages left in the New Testament from the book of Titus until the end. I've read the remarks you've stated and they prove nothing. Drugs damage the body, so do ciggarettes which are legal, so does some medicines. Are you going to crack out Scientology next and dispute that those who take medicines with harmful side effects to the body are not honoring the temple of christ or our human bodies?

Bottom line it says nowhere that suicide equals eternal damnation or purgatory, if you personally believe this than that is your interpretation and you need to cite that when making a comment like that, because you have no proof to verify that it's the correct interpretation. Secondly suicide is mentioned about twice in the bible, I remember the other case where they were referring to the jailer who was going to kill himself and they were like "no, don't do that". I think it's because God values life, and loves us and wants us to be ok. It isn't to say he will have no love for us if we cannot take living on this world another moment.

It's interesting, you believe in God's divine judgement, and I believe in his divine mercy, odd how we have differing views on suicide and God isn't it?

[hellbred]

You're right, I have no idea how much of the Bible you've read. One thing I'm pretty sure you have read is the 10 Commandments, and I ask you to read the sixth one.

[darkViVi]

Well.........

I have done both. Never attempted suicide because I don't belive in it.
When I was 15-16 I used to cut myself while listening to music mostly because I got a kick out of it and being in control of my pain, yeah I know that sounds sick
and thats probobly the biggets reason I stopped, at the same time I started getting high on different stuff not only drugs.

I have used a lot of different kind of drugs mostly everything from weed to heroin, and I know the types of drugs that is more likely to kill is heroin, coke, amphetamine, X and acid (LSD). These are also the drugs that will **** you up the most, I have lots of friends that is totally ****ed because of many of these drugs and some that have been killed by them. The youngest I know to have died is a 18 year old friend of mine.

If anyone would ask me why I do/did drugs I'm not sure what answer to give them other than it's for getting high, I like the feeling and I like feeling totally stoned or high as the clouds.

As for the question in the first post, I shall answer it here.
It depends what is more dangerous than cutting yourself, look.

Is cutting more dangerous than smoking weed? HELL YEAH!!! Weed doesn't kill unless you smoke WAAY to much and get cancer or other lung diseases.

Is cutting more dangerous than doing heroine? NO!!!!!!! Heroine is so dangerous that I can't think of another thing in the world more dangerous than it.

But by cutting the greatest risk is that the wounds might get infected, if it don't kill you it'll make you understand the meaning of the word pain.
I haven't gotten any infected wounds but I had a tooth I didn't pull and the pain when it got infected is worse than anyones wildest imagination.

So my advice, don't do neither of those and if you still want to, smoke weed ok?

[Dragoon Joe]

i actually disagree with both of them

but

i have nothing against the people that do them because they have 'free-will' so they can do what they want.

hope things are gon well Chez!

[Chez Daja]

Thanks DC.

DV, wow, I'm actually really surprised. You never really struck me as the type to have a past like that -- but it's really interesting to discover things about people, particuarly things that happened in the past...

The whole "cutting yourself while listening to music" sounds a lot like me. I used to do that a couple of years back, and did yesterday night as well. The problem with weed is, I don't want to smoke, and I got no place to smoke anyway. I used to want to try it before I got into this "relationship" thing I got going... so now, when I feel all this pent up rage, all this anger and this sadness, I just reach for the nearest sharp object, and I just go for my arms and my wrists and hands. The reason I do it most is when I feel lonely, and since I was never able to complete one of my biggest goals, it makes me angrier at myself for not trying hard enough.

See, ever since I was young, I was sort of a loner. Nobody really liked me. I was bullied in school so badly that I had to be home-taught, so I grew up alone and without friends. As I grew up, I kept hearing about all these people that were committing suicide. Like that hippy guy with the long hair and the wife that left him because he wasn't making money for their family anymore or some shit. He got so depressed one day that he gased himself in his car. He literally intoxicated himself and suffocated to death. Well, I was very young when I heard that, about five or six years old, so my parents had lied to me and told me he died from lonliness. It was only a few years ago that I really discovered the truth, and that was because we'd been close to him. I'd been freaked out when I'd heard he'd died, but I'd not really understood...I even remember getting into the car on the way home from school, being told at a young age that Ross had died and shit. I didn't really understand what it meant.

But now I get why he killed himself. He was so alone, so depressed...he just went for it and killed himself.

I've grown up, hearing all these ****ed up stories about people who committed suicide and shit. So I'm used to all that stuff.

Now, I'm not suicidal anymore. I just self-harm myself lightly to help concentrate my pain off my heart and and make it all physical. The scratches on my wrists from last night are hardly even visable now because the screwdriver wasn't rouch-edged enough to penetrate the skin. So yeah, maybe some people think it's ****ed up, but for others, it's way to deal to with stress, upset, fear, anger, lost hope, being let down and shit.