Freedom of Religion

[hellbred]

For those who took part in my Freedom of Religion discussion before the forum was reverted to a 3.15.2005 backup, I just thought I'd share these quotes from the Muslim clerics today in Afghanistan:

"Rejecting Islam is insulting God. We will not allow God to be humiliated. This man must die."

God is a forgiving God. He could not be humiliated by a mere man. These people have little to no idea what God is by definition.

"He is not crazy. He went in front of the media and confessed to being a Christian," said Hamidullah, chief cleric at Haji Yacob Mosque. "The government is scared of the international community. But the people will kill him if he is freed."

Chanes are no, he's not crazy. The Afghan government obviously has a will for Freedom as the Afghan people do not, therefore allowing for this man to have a scape route.

"Cut off his head!" he exclaimed, sitting in a courtyard outside Herati Mosque. "We will call on the people to pull him into pieces so there's nothing left."

Shouted by Muslim clerics if the Afghan government decides to allow Mr. Ruhman to go free.

"Rahman must not be allowed to leave the country.

"If he is allowed to live in the West, then others will claim to be Christian so they can, too," he said. "We must set an example. ... He must be hanged."

If the U.S. Government offers shelter for the man, the Muslim community will fear others will resort to this to leave their country, wether they want to convert to Christianity, or not.

.......I saved the saddest for last. For all those here who have served in the war on terror since 2001, or are current active duty, or know someone who is:

"We are a small country and we welcome the help the outside world is giving us. But please don't interfere in this issue," Nasri said. "We are Muslims and these are our beliefs. This is much more important to us than all the aid the world has given us."

[Sasquatch]

"Religion of peace" my ass.

I'm still wondering why the hell the United States spent so many billions of dollars and so many lives granting freedom to the people of Afghanistan, only to turn around and let them add that kind of thing into their constitution.

I also don't like how "Allah" is translated to "God". They are not the same.

[hellbred]

Islam is not a peaceful religion. Be it Muslim extremeists, or the population as a whole for day to day practise as we have now seen. They care nothing about freedom, because if they did they would not be sending a man to his death on the sole fact that he has different beliefs, which is the very essence of freedom itself. Being able to atleast think and speak your mind.

I don't care who or what the Islam religion holds in higher power. Allah, God, ..a damn rock for all I care. If they believe in a creator, they cannot honestly believe any creator, in any form, would welcome the death of an innocent human life.

Even Christianity find it a sin for idolatry of another 'creator' outside of the Holy Trinity, but we would never put a man to death because of it.

Edit:
I also just love how the Afghan President said Islam is a religion of tolerance. He couldn't have said anything less true. I think this man, unfortunately, will be put to death however I pray he won't. But in the event he does I know myself, and I believe many others will find it hard to find sympathy for Afghanistan's future.

[Euclissence]

Being somewhat stuck between an Atheist point of view and an Agnoist, it would seem Christianity indeed would be the least aggressive religion, caring not to include the history Roman Catholic Church....

I just worry that the article or information may have been somewhat biased...haven taken media studies for several years, I simply wonder...without changing information signifigantly, the tone of an article can be completely revereted...

[OnOneRyder]

Islam unfourtunately is a violent religion, even up to modern time's they murder people in the name of god. If their is a god, he would want nothing to do with such things. It's up to him to judge and punish people, not us. I'm not saying christianity is as bad, but they also have their dark past and were involved in some very bad situations.

[hellbred]

Every religion has had it's moments of disappointments I'm sure.

But most have turned from it. They've established what you said above... Only God can judge us, not man. I'd have to say, without having hard facts, that from what I've seen via news feeds.... Islam kills more people in the name of God today, than any other religion. If I'm wrong, by all means correct me.

Actually, Christians commited one of the biggest genocides against another religion and that was the Holocaust.

There have been other atrocities but the Jewish religion truly has had a hard time suffering through discrimination, Nazi oppression and now its fight against hte Palastinians which does seem to be easing off at the moment.

[Sasquatch]

Actually, the Nazis were nowhere near Christian. Nice try. For one thing, the Nazi eschelon was very much into the occult -- for another, even if it was reasoned with some manipulation of Christianity, it was a smal minority of so-called Christians that supported it, as opposed to the majority of Middle Eastern Muslims that support a modern-day Holocaust, which is what the current situation is.

[hellbred]

Yes, considering most Muslim nations call for the absolute surrender, or destruction of Israel. Even if Christian-Nazi's partook in the Holocaust, I wouldn't begin to even call them Christian's.

From what I heard however, Israel allowed the convicted Christian to take shelter within it's borders. Did I hear right? At least the man wasn't killed, and those hatefull Muslims in Afghanistan weren't able to harm him.

[Faustus]

Originally Posted by hellbred

.

Even Christianity find it a sin for idolatry of another 'creator' outside of the Holy Trinity, but we would never put a man to death because of it.

I would love for it to be possible for you to say it to the face to the victems of the Inquisition or the Crusades(not just the ones that went to Muslim lands). Religious fanatics regardless of their faith of choice always disregard any rules they might have against killing and they slay anyone they can who disagrees. The Problem with Islam as well as Christianity and Judism is that the adherents of those religions think they are right and that it is written stone that everyone else is wrong. And Christianity and Islam's "we must convert the world" mentality just makes things worse.

[hellbred]

I'm sure you read my post, which is why I don't understand your reasoning for this reply. My original post was in regards to the Afghan government putting a man to death because of his religion... which is a modern-time issue, not Crusadic time.

How many Christians put the opposite religion to death in today's times because they won't convert? Please don't reply with examples, because Christianity does not support such an action, therefore those who do so in the name of Jesus Christ are not Christians.

Is murder not a sin for Islams? If so then they're just being total hipocrits who are just blood thirsty. I'd hate to see them actually get out and fight for what they believe in, they'd cower off. They dont want to kill him because he is a 'heritic' to them, they want to kill him just because they think they have the ability to do so, and they want to abuse that power. Thats how I feel.

many muslims are still living in a time before ours. their ideologies have not changed to fit the state the world is in.

christianity and judaism were very similar once upon a time. just read all of the laws in the old testament. you'd find some of them absolutely absurd.
did christianity and judaism change or did christians and jews change?

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by HatredIncarnate

I would love for it to be possible for you to say it to the face to the victems of the Inquisition or the Crusades(not just the ones that went to Muslim lands). Religious fanatics regardless of their faith of choice always disregard any rules they might have against killing and they slay anyone they can who disagrees.

First off, many times more Christians have been killed by others because of their faith than others that have been killed by Christians because of their lack of faith (in Christianity). Though, judging by your misunderstanding of the Crusades, I wouldn't expect you to know much about that. Other than that, there is a huge difference in Christianity's "we must spread the word of Christianity" conversion tactic and Islam's "convert or be killed, infidels" conversion tactic.

Originally Posted by Saracen

christianity and judaism were very similar once upon a time. just read all of the laws in the old testament. you'd find some of them absolutely absurd.
did christianity and judaism change or did christians and jews change?

Nothing changed. Christianity and Judiasm never commanded its followers to slaughter anybody and everybody who wasn't of the same religion. Some Old Testament punishments are "absurd" by today's standards, but they were realistic back when they were written -- and the Old Testament punishments have since been overriden by the New Testament, where forgiveness through Jesus comes in.

[Jin]

I don't think it's a matter of religon, as all organised, monotheistic religions are virtually the same. It's a matter of progress. The muslim countries are not as advanced politically as the western, Christian world. The people are not used to freedom and therefor oppose it. The same is true about most post-Soviet states, which have been declining according to HDI numbers. People have to be ready for freedom, which sounds almost tyranical as I type it, but I think you get my point.