The Reason The U.S.A Will Fall

[Angantyr]

I guess I agree but also disagree. Allthough america did create a great place, they were originally pretty much a place for Europeans to seek another life, then many other countries sent their people their for hopes of a better future. Unfortunatly the standards haven't been raised across the whole country, ie why you have many civil wars. I do agree there will always be america, but there will always be an Egypt. I personally think America has gone down hill in the past 20 years I've been alive. I am not going to say why, as this may offend some people, but America is the type of Country that you would hesistate to before trying to destroy them.

If America is to regain control they should look to countries that have proved to be succesfull through all time the British and Scandinavian countries. They have only had minor hishap's but they are proving to be the most civilised nations on Earth. (I am not 100% but from what I heard, Finland is the most stable and safest country in the world, next to Norway, and probably no longer Denmark)

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by Wintermetal

Many of you people know there is a war AGAINST the arabs, but seriously why would the USA care about a country like them?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you misspoke here, instead of the (probably more accurate) idea that you said something this incredibly stupid on purpose. I really hope you're smarter than that. There is no "war against the Arabs". There is a war against those who want to slaughter every Christian and Jew, yes. There is a war against those who want to decapitate Americans and disembowel Israelis, yes. There is a war against the people who view freedom and Capitalism as an enemy worth giving their life to take the lives of innocent civilians who enjoy such freedom and Capitalism, yes. But it's mere coincidence that most of these enemies are Arabs and Muslims.

I wonder how many people know that Jews have been at war with the Muslims since the begining! The US is currently the most powerful force, but they are only a pawn in the fight from jews against muslims!

I wonder if you know that the very first political move by Muslims was a hostile invasion? Yes, Islam and Judaism have been at war "since the beginning". That's because Islam began with invading Jewish land and slaughtering Jews. Tell me, how many Muslim countries has Israel vowed to push into the sea? And how many Muslim countries have vowed to slaughter all Israelis, kill all Jews, and push Israel into the sea? I can name half a dozen off the top of my head.

[OnOneRyder]

China is a much larger threat than some of your perceive. They have the means to destroy every major city in you country through nuclear strikes in a matter of hours. They also have the means to take you by force in numbers. The only thing that gives your country and leg up on them in that aspect is your ability to mobilize thousands of troops. They certainly do not have near the transports you do, which is a reason to fear them even more so. If for some reason in the next few decades there is reason to go to war they will likely begin to crumble and use nuclear war as a means of crippling your forces.

As far as America falling apart from the inside, I don't know. I think that your leaders would instill a state of martial law well before it got to a point where internal rebels could act strong enough to take you down. You may be slow to respond to the aid of your own but there is no doubt in my mind you would have traitors crushed in a matter of days.

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by OnOneRyder

China is a much larger threat than some of your perceive. They have the means to destroy every major city in you country through nuclear strikes in a matter of hours.

Thanks to the ICBM technology that Clinton gave them, yes. But I highly doubt that nuclear weaponry will ever be used again, because it would mean Mutually Assured Destruction. Our defense systems would have our own nukes launched by the time theirs got halfway over. It would look at lot like ... this.

They also have the means to take you by force in numbers.

This is definitely true. The entire United States military -- Reserves, National Guard, and Active Duty for Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard (which really isn't part of the military anymore) numbers around one million. China's military is many times that. They don't have the technology or the equipment, but they have the numbers.

The only thing that gives your country and leg up on them in that aspect is your ability to mobilize thousands of troops. They certainly do not have near the transports you do, which is a reason to fear them even more so.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't know about this. Though they don't have as large or (nearly) as powerful of a Navy as the United States has, I'm sure they have plenty of ground transportation -- and as you pointed out, with the numbers they have, it wouldn't be too difficult to cut off a lot of supply lines and take a lot of ports, and that could cripple U.S. war production.

As far as America falling apart from the inside, I don't know. I think that your leaders would instill a state of martial law well before it got to a point where internal rebels could act strong enough to take you down. You may be slow to respond to the aid of your own but there is no doubt in my mind you would have traitors crushed in a matter of days.

When I mentioned falling apart from the inside, I didn't mean a hostile takeover. I meant a continuous, debilitating series of situations ... almost like a disease.

[Angantyr]

I love how people try to hide race as the real issue in fear of being considered "racist". See the thing about that statement, is the fact that the Muslims want to completely destroy others, where as the people in america (White Europeans) want to restore it back to the way it was. Sure a lot of these people say "Kill all jews" but most of them just want to continue on with their forefathers legacy, and don't see the need for foreign interest, and they seem to think this is the only answer left.

I don't want to get into a huge debate about this but the USA has lost its moral standards since the jews have taken control. You don't like homosexuality right? That wasn't forced upon us till they came along, they are the biggest promoters of it. (I am not going to look for proof to back this up but you just need to look it up if you don't believe me)

Anyway, China is a mild threat at the moment, so it is in their best interests to keep them under control, with the 1child per family thing, this is going to show in the next 30 years when they have an aging population. But I personally believe that they would rather not destroy america. If they needed land, there is much more accessible land across around that part of the world.

No personally I think the USA will fall because, they may have control over their people, but they do not give what the people want, rather they just focus on their concepts of "Freedom", rather than real freedom!

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by Wintermetal

Sure a lot of these people say "Kill all jews" but most of them just want to continue on with their forefathers legacy, and don't see the need for foreign interest, and they seem to think this is the only answer left.

You're partially right. But I guess you don't realize that "their forefathers' legacy" was "kill all Jews". Islam, since it was founded, has been a religion of hatred and of war. And their "wanting to keep tradition", or however you want to consider it, includes warfare against Jews, Christians, and whitey in general.

I don't want to get into a huge debate about this but the USA has lost its moral standards since the jews have taken control. You don't like homosexuality right? That wasn't forced upon us till they came along, they are the biggest promoters of it. (I am not going to look for proof to back this up but you just need to look it up if you don't believe me)

Why does this not surprise me? If you want to make an outrageous statement like that, you find something to support it. The rest of us know better already.

Anyway, China is a mild threat at the moment, so it is in their best interests to keep them under control, with the 1child per family thing, this is going to show in the next 30 years when they have an aging population. But I personally believe that they would rather not destroy america. If they needed land, there is much more accessible land across around that part of the world.

This is true. As much as China may dislike America, and as much as America may dislike China, we need each other. Both countries are in serious debt to each other, and we provide billions upon billions of dollars worth of business to each other. We may bicker back and forth, but we're both smart enough not to make bitter enemies of a country we (and they) rely on so heavily.

[Angantyr]

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

You're partially right. But I guess you don't realize that "their forefathers' legacy" was "kill all Jews". Islam, since it was founded, has been a religion of hatred and of war. And their "wanting to keep tradition", or however you want to consider it, includes warfare against Jews, Christians, and whitey in general.

Allthough there was a lot of war during that time, a lot of people died for something worthwhile, I respect them, but Islam is honestly pointlessly attacking america for something that is considerably miss interpreted, bush says its for americas freedom, islam says its for their freedom of religion, National Socialists say its for the freedom to be themselves. All have their points but they all have their flaws, so its hard for me to come to a complete conclusion.

Why does this not surprise me? If you want to make an outrageous statement like that, you find something to support it. The rest of us know better already.

Precisely why I didn't want to bring it up, look for the book "Jewish Supremacism", look for sites with a list of jews, www.jewwatch.com www.jewishfaces.org, look at why the Nazi's wanted them out of Europe. Germans were never Materialist. This may seem like an outrageous statement, but unfortunatly its true.

This is true. As much as China may dislike America, and as much as America may dislike China, we need each other. Both countries are in serious debt to each other, and we provide billions upon billions of dollars worth of business to each other. We may bicker back and forth, but we're both smart enough not to make bitter enemies of a country we (and they) rely on so heavily.

Exactly

I was not aware of the fact that this much fascism still existed in the world. I hope you all die in a war.

[Angantyr]

^ We're all going to die eventually it doesn't matter if its from aids, war, rape etc we will still die.

Facism, Racism, Sexism etc all exist and always will. The only people that general aren't aloud to do it without being given labels are the ones who have a real meaning behind it. Cause in the end no matter how much you hate it and want to end it, the people who are saying it tend to be right. Its up to themselves as a human to do their best to prove them wrong. I am Irish but I do not drink a lot, there goes my part.

This I think is what keeps some people together, even in small groups you them attacking the same type of people, more of a personallity thing than something you can't control but yeah. A lot of people are going out of their way to destroy cultural identity just so they can have sex with some foreigner without thinking of all the implications that go with it. America is a cesspool and no amount of whining about Facism will change it.

[Akira]

Well, it seems I'm a bit behind in this discussion/debate but I'll try and include all my arguments.

Originally Posted by Saquatch

There's a difference in questioning and insulting. Question our government all you want. It's our responsibility, our obligation. We should question everything they do. But as for insulting, conspiracy theories, and undermining authority, that doesn't help anything at all.

Hmmm, it might seem that some of the methods sometimes used to express ones dissatisfaction for a government's actions seem quite irrational and "retarded" to put it simply, I'm sure most (not all, I hate generalization) people do it out of pure frustration and inabbility to hanlde/deal with the situation. Now, I'm not talking about the usual protests that movie stars and musicians practice, since those people are usually just following a trend of some sort anyways (such as the current trend to hate the US although they couldn't come up with any factual statements to support their claims), but there are people who generally don't know how to express themselves other than blunt statements and scathing attacks towards political figures. But let's be honest, it obviously has a stronger, more potent effect, Here's an example of what I mean:

"I completely disagree with Bush's approach towards dealing with other countries, and therfore realise that most countries feel a need to retaliate."

"Bush's imperialist attitude and dictating leadership lead to opposing countries having no other choice than retaliating with absurd claims of using nuclear attacks."

Note that I agree with neither of these two statements as such and merely used them as an example. Obviously the second statement catches more attention with it's radical and abrupt accusations. The same is true for protesting and similar forms of expression. Some simply don't know how to get support or make a change without grabbing the heavy weapons and making blatant accusations such as claims of imperialism, dictatorship, or fascism.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

They didn't have an option. Since they couldn't be trusted not to use their chemical and biological weapons, the UN placed sanctions on them, including required inspections. If Saddam had kept his finger off the button for the past twenty years, none of that would have been required.

I believe the attack you are referring to is that use of chemical weapons in the Iran-Iraq War. However, after the disarmamement of Iraq's weaponry, they didn't have any further WOMD and it was constantly checked upon by UN inspection teams. It's true that Iraq relented to let the inspections teams in during the immediate time before the most recent Persian Gulf War, however, after Iraq's Ba'ath government had been ousted, no proof of WOMDs was found so there was no immediate threat. It's true that Saddam had used the weapons once but that doesn't mean he had the capability to do so in the future.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

By the way, don't use the swiftness and efficiency of an invasion as evidence for a weak Iraq, but moreso a strong Coalition.

I disagree. Iraq simply didn't have the capability to offer any resistance militarily. The disarmamement act had destroyed any real future capability and therefore it WAS actually a weakened state. However, Iraq just like Vietnam 50 years before it, is now attempting to push out the US troops using guerilla tactics. It worked relatively effectively for the Vietcong, leaving out aspects like dissent within America during the time. It is seemingly the only option for a nation with out a strong military power to even go against a foreign invader, especially one as strong as the US. It is a type of warfare that is not direct and uncontrollable. Not to mention it is near impossible to monitor, much less discover its perplexity.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

If we decided Mexico should be part of America and invaded it, and the UN came in and beat us back, then yes, that would be understandable. Because we'd deserve it.

I totally agree on this part, however. It's not without good cause that Iraq qas being opened like a book and everything statistical exposed to the UN council. The same would happen with the US IF they were suspected of being a threat. Iraq, although not an immediate threat, still had a shady past and not exactly turned over a new leaf. That's the reason why countries with more democratic (as "free" nations are described although the amount of freedom each gives to it's people is subjective to opinion) ideals are less suspicious.

However, one should never forget; what seems right to you may seem taboo to another and vice versa. It's wrong to try and force people in Africa to adopt a westernized lifestyle if that is not what they are used to. Just because the west says it's the right way to live still does not mean it actually is. I mean if I was a Samurai living in feudal Japan, I'd tell westerners to go shove their "civilized" lifestyle somewhere dark...really dark.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

There's a huge difference in having "problems with terrorists" and state-sponsored terrorism. Yes, there are terrorists all over the world. No, most of these terrorists (well, outside the Middle East) aren't supported by a government. Saddam, on the other hand, built training camps and provided weapons and funding and information to Al-Queda. That's not even going into their hatred of Israel and Saddam's $25,000 checks to families of "Palestinian" homicide bombers. Again, there's a huge difference in having terrorists in a country and that country actively harboring -- and training, and financing, and supporting -- terrorism.

Well it's true that Saddam's regime supported the use of terrorism but that goes for quite a number of states in the Middle East. So again comes the great question, why for gods sake only Iraq. And if not only Iraq, why was Iraq the first on the list. I'm sorry but there is no evidence that Iraq was more of an immediate threat than any other pro-terrorist Islamic fundementalist nation. The fact that they didn't find any WOMDs, rules out any threat to the US. Even if allies of the US were threatened (which they weren't; please name them if I am mistaken), why did Iraq, as opposed to other radical nations, pose such an immediate threat as needing to be desposed of so quickly?

Originally Posted by Lazer

Most might laugh at what I believe is the real threat to the US, but I feel the European Union is the true threat to US global dominance. As time goes on the ties between central, western and some eastern European countries grows. If this does not change than soon the countries of europe will become like the states of America. If this happens than the US will most definitly be replaced as the world superpower. The're already more powerful, they just have no strong unified voice.

Well, the diversity that is within the European borders hinders any immediate union that truly works as an entity. The difference between the United States and the European Union is that the former was created from scratch (in spite of native Americans actually having lived ther but you know what I mean), while the latter is trying to form a whole out of already existing cultures and ethnicities.

The European realm can be divided into Scandinavian, Slavic, Romantic, Germanic, Greco, etc. cultural land masses. Now try and go tell people of different backgrounds/beliefs to follow one banner. How do you solve the problem of language? Do you force everybody to adopt English as the spoken language? Or possibly another language? And who makes sure people abide by these guidelines? Should people be forced to adopt certain aspects to try and unify them?

Fact is that it is extremely hard to create an actual Union among the European states and still keep their differences intact. I believe this will either hinder growth of Europe into a global super power for a long time or eternally.

Conflicts like the current one about France's and Germany's stock markets wanting to fuse brings up problems like where the location shall be. Obviously the Germans want it to stay in Franfurt. Accordingly, the French want the new combined market to be placed in French borders. Who cedes into who's demands? This is just one of many such conflicts. How do you truly solve the problem and still let everyone win? Is it even possible?

Originally Posted by Hellbred

I feel this is at the least a issue worth keeping an eye on. However, don't be fooled -- The U.S. has been watching China for a long time, along with other Asian countries. Why I don't think China will provoke a global altercation due to our countries needing each other in trade and economic issues, I do feel China has the means to criple the U.S. via nuclear weapons.

Why does everybody focus on China so much? The country is prospering quite greatly, it's industry flourishes, it may soon become an economic super power like Japan, but on a much larger scale. I believe attention for possible threats should be turned towards countries who have nothing to lose and everthing to gain. I simply say North Korea. I believe of all of the enemies to democracy in the world right now, it poses the greatest threat of all.

Consider the facts, N. Korea is cut off from outside sources completely. And no, it's not only because of the Communist dictatorship. The western powers have done more than their fair share to infuriate N. Korea into lunacy. Endless embargoes and sanctions make the country to a slowly dying entity. What does a country with no real options and absolutely no global influence do? They build the only object that will immediately make them a global player. A nuclear weapon.

Now, once such a nation on the brink of death has one of these weapons, what would they most likely do? Try and hit the bastards that have been deluding their country to crap. Hmmm, can't hit them directly aye? Well, why not bring the whole global market to its knees by hitting one of the most valuable assets.

That's right! I think N. Korea would benefit most by bombing Japan. I mean it's close, it's the nearest economic super power. It greatly influences US and European economics.

"Well, bringing that to a standstill would surely hit those ass tards where we want to."

And so, N. Korea, knowing that it will eventually perish due to all the sanctions anyways, knows it has nothing to lose and throws a nuke or ten on Japan.

"So what if the US follows up with another thousand nukes? We would have died soon enough anyways. At least we go out with glory this way!"

And what ensues is a nuclear holocaust.

I'm actually not done yet so I'll either follow up with another post or edit this one later.

[jmur]

Could USA fall? Anything is possible. However I don't see it happening. Some argue that greed will bring the country down. I don't agree it is the driving force of this country. This Country is the most ambition in the world trying to create anything and everything. However I believe one of the US's biggest promblem is trying to stick its nose in every avenue. Sometimes the country tries to take on to many promblems at once.