The job system: downfall of FFV?

[LocoColt04]

Okay, we all know that FFV's story lacked in comparison to FFIV and FFVI, but that doesn't mean the characters blew and the story was non-existant. FFV put a different twist on the way Final Fantasy was perceived, so why did it fail so miserably in the States and internationally?

I'd like to discuss the job system. Yes, useless classes exist. I don't think anyone here will argue that point. But was the job system what really brought the game down?

As much as I like it, I'm going to have to take the negative side and agree that this was probably what gave the game its biggest lack of appeal. To the American audience, it was something new and unheard of, requiring a functioning brain to put good characters together. You hear that?! A FUNCTIONING BRAIN!!!

Let's face the truth -- the American gaming community was raised on dumbed down versions of all of the great Japanese games for the longest time. (No one here should take offense to that, because I'm an American and I know that it's the truth. There's no arguing that point.)

But of these same ignorant people, how many of the FFT lovers realize that FFT's system might not even exist if not for FFV? I'm guessing not very many. The more I play into FFV, the more I love it. But now I'm going off of my own topic just a bit. I tend to do that sometimes.

Erm, point being, I feel the job system made this game fail in America.
Period.

[T.G. Oskar]

Very good point, though I differ slightly on your thoughts. Maybe it wasn't only the job system that made it fail. Maybe it was the whole game itself. Don't take me badly, I like the game pretty much, as I love FF Tactics because of the job system. I'm of the people that personally prefer job class system over all other FF ability-adquiring systems. Your point is quite valid: up until job-based games appeared, all RPGs Americans played were, how to say, "digested" a lot; even now most of the oldskoolers protest to Square Enix that recent FF games are too easy. So, it is valid to think that too easy games provoked American tastes in games to be distorted a bit. But, the game's story isn't as appealing as the rest of the FFs, much less the rest of the RPGs up to that time. The job system just added to the blandness, since players were accustomed to use characters with preset skills. And, the huge hit on FF Tactics wasn't because of its job class system but because of its engrossing story.

But then again...the job class system is quite possibly the oldest form of character creation besides the premade ones (D&D, anyone?). Even the first FF was a job class-based game: it was really hard to choose from the start what kind of character to have to play it for the rest of the game. At least FFV made it easier, and FF Tactics made it more customizable.

So, summing up: the game was not favored because of the job system, but because it didn't appealed to gamers, and (for newbie gamers) because the game is too old.

[Sean]

I think it was the job system that klled it, but from a certain view.

I, personally, love FFV as much as I do for the ability to change jobs, use abilities from other jobs, and just overall kick ass as whatever you are.

RDM using Double Grip = outdamages a Knight not using Double Grip. So, as an well played RDM in V, you can outdamage, in melee, a Knight, deal equal damage as a Black Mage using elemental magics, and heal just as much as a WHM can. So, that, in theory, makes a party of 4 Red Mages unstoppable. I'd like to test this theory, but for now I'm using 3 RDM and a THF, the THF's dash and see passages abilities.

On to my point.....

The job system killed it in the sence that, because of it, it removed the needs of more characters to get a more customizable party. Why the hell would you want to add another character in at random points that will be gimped compared to the ones you're using now?

And, for killing the amount of characters in the game, it cut down on the story lines that could develope based off the characters, such as in FFVI when you're in the WoR looking for all your party members, and a storyline ensues off of that.

So, the job system sliced the character numbers down and killed the storyline, but, because of the job system, I freaking love the game.

So, I gained a most awesome ability for losing a most awesome aspect. C'est la vie.

[Brotherhood]

Originally Posted by LocoColt04

Okay, we all know that FFV's story lacked in comparison to FFIV and FFVI

Who says? Thats just your opinion, I found FFV's story just as good as FFIV's and FFVI's.

Also Ive found as good as the game is it is definitely underated because of the job system, thats why most people hate FFX-2. I dont really have a problem with the job system in FFV, at least its not liner like FFIX, FFIV and FFVI and I had alot of fun training all the characters to master all of the job systems so why all the bad rap?

[Dawezy]

Heh, its a shame that it had such a late release AND had alot of foreign features (as compared to the other FF of the time) to adapt to.. and it seems that just about 70% of the US market failed to understand the Job system to its full potential, lol. Ahh well, you tend to get that with alot of games these days. On a personal level i found the Job system to be EXTREMELY challenging, why? well, unless you want to be plain and do the Samurai > $Toss for the entire game, you are gonna have some difficulty if your party setup isnt well evened out.

Particularly in the Cleft of Dimension.. DAMN!.. you gotta watch the MP something chronic.

[LocoColt04]

Originally Posted by Brotherhood

Who says?

Who says? The general public.

Originally Posted by Brotherhood

I had alot of fun training all the characters to master all of the job systems so why all the bad rap?

Because a lot of people don't like having to actually WORK to complete a game. Don't yell at me. Yell at them for being lazy bastards and not realizing all of the potential that this game truly holds.

Yes, FFV is completely underrated, and a lot of people probably never even gave it a chance because of the job system. I've got a lot of friends with FFV/FFVI for the PS1 and none of them play FFV because it's "too hard."

...awww, what's the matter? The game wasn't dumbed down for you? Poor babies. People should take advantage of the opportunity to play a real game with actual difficulty rather than shun it and toss it to the side. Don't understand the job system? Learn it!

[Shan'do Spike]

I have a different theory. What made this game suck in proportion to all FF games is that it had less character depth than FFX, and a had a storyline so shallow, I could have sworn that I had written it. People can overcome challenging gameplay if the story and characters are well-made, but these shallow soulless avatars wouldn't make it in a $.10 novel.

**** the public. I care about what's important to me, and I believe that a game will sell well(read, FFT), even if the game is hard, as long as the story and characters are good.

[Dawezy]

Heh, once you master a Job you feel somewhat satisfied, even aroused, in the fact that you have really EARNED your prize, and some damn fine abilities to boot. I for one can say that once you actually get off your ass and play the thing, you feel much more comfortable with the game. But as mentioned in my post above.. it is a shame that the general public never really dived into it more then they did..

Bleh. I pity da' foo who dislikes FFV for its Job system.

But i do agree with you whole heartedly Spike, particularly this;

Originally Posted by Spike

What made this game suck in proportion to all FF games is that it had less character depth than FFX, and a had a storyline so shallow, I could have sworn that I had written it.

Loved the last remark

[Jin]

I agree with Dawezy, sure the story was a tad "saturday morning cartoon" like, and the characters were not that defined but the job system put a spin on the game that just made me want to play it. It brought a sense of customization that was unheard of at the time. Was fun too ^^

[Brotherhood]

Spikes right, **** the public, what matters is my own opinion. And I would have to disagree that its the general public because I never even knew that FF5 was underated until I saw that basher Tom make that stupid "FF5 Sucks" thread here.

[LocoColt04]

Yes, I agree that everyone's personal opinion is what matters. But my point is that the general public didn't like it, and that's why it failed. A dozen fanboys won't make a game a best-seller. Do you see my point?

Now, I'll be nice this time. Don't start flaming people in this forum.

[Sean]

I don't see FFV as underrated so much as.... underappreciated.

The systems in the game weren't fully appreciated by those who played it.


Brotherhood, to my knowledge Tom was the only one who posted in that thread saying FFV sucked, everyone else posted in defense of it.

[Brotherhood]

Ive noticed that alot of the FF5 and FF8 bashers are the ones that seem to think that FFX-2 was the best game for PS2. Now thats immature fanboyism for ya.

The job system in this game was kinda annoying compaired to the simple Materia system or the 'get what your given' stuff from FF4 and FFIX. Though it was still good because battling and leveling up is half the fun of an RPG IMO.

[Jin]

may I ask what exactly was annoying about it? I mean, it's not as if it was overally complicated or anything. It was quite a good system by my views, but that's just me. I am curious what about it you found annoying.