This new era in games and their Future...

[Baneheart]

Alright, as I mentioned in the other thread of the GBA/DS releases of those older games, I shall be making this thread on a INTELLECTUAL level about games, cause I seriously think something is wrong.

Now to start off for the past couple of years I have found it almost difficult to find some really good games lately. Of course the ones mentioned on X-Play and such and my own loving genre and types of games are different from everyone elses. Does anyone notice how many BAD games have increased about ten fold since 2002? I mean X-Play constantly gets medicore games that are hardly fun, (unless they have a 4/5 outta 5 day), and to me I am getting this feeling that the gaming industry is beginning to lose sight of why games were made in the first place.

Another problem I see is a lot of companies making these games that just look great graphic wise but suck ASS gameplay wise, (Catwoman for example). It's like these noobie companies come on in and have taken over our stock of games and ruined all the difficulty it had in the past and all the REAL fun. And with new machines like the 360 which actually didn't have that great of a line up I'm also thinking that this enhancement of graphic ability and such is really going to hurt the gaming industry.

Even Square Enix, (which I still hate for fusing with that f-ing other company), has made some medicore or just plain bad games, which is a great surprise since most games that have made or worked on has been so awesome. Is the gaming industry losing it's touch? Do you think they are focusing a bit too much of hack&slash and graphics? Give your input my fellow nerds.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by Griffith

Another problem I see is a lot of companies making these games that just look great graphic wise but suck ASS gameplay wise, (Catwoman for example). It's like these noobie companies come on in and have taken over our stock of games and ruined all the difficulty it had in the past and all the REAL fun. And with new machines like the 360 which actually didn't have that great of a line up I'm also thinking that this enhancement of graphic ability and such is really going to hurt the gaming industry.

True. Very very true. Theres been too many movie/tv related games that suck like anything. Their graphics are a selling ploy, as the gameplay is weak. Sometimes this ruins great movies.

Also, has anyone noticed how much more easy games are getting these days? I went back to playing some good old classic mario and zelda and realised how much harder they are than a lot of the new games. I think that having good graphics is a good thing, but it should'nt interfere with gameplay. If a game is to be fun and successful it needs a good storyline, good gameplay, and it needs to be different from other games. I personally cannot tell the difference between any of the sports games (maybe its cause i hate sports), and now even the platform games, which are usually inquisitive and intreguing, are getting blander and blander. I whipped through the new Crash Bandicoot round my cousins house. Being 5-year old gamers they didnt understand how i found it so easy, and i remember the older PS1 versions to be a bit more challenging.

HORRAY FOR RETRO!

I also found the Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicals a HUGE disapointment. For those who have never played it, it is nothing like you'd expect from a good old Final Fantasy. The gameplays like a bad Legand of Zelda but with less intreguing characters, NO STORYLINE (or at least a lack of one), and is hard, if not impossible to get hooked on it!
Has anyone else had similar disapointments with this, or other games?

[LocoColt04]

It's not that there are more bad games now. That's hardly the case at all. The difference is, there's more money floating around the industry (which is good), so the companies can push their games more (which is also good). Unfortunately, when a crap game comes along packed with hype it cannot live up to, that's bad. The videogame industry is flourishing, despite all of the protesters against this or that or some other bullshit thing regarding the industry as a whole.

There are a LOT of bad games from the previous generations. Even more than now, in my opinion. The difference is, those games never had the advertisement and the hype that a lot of current games have.

Games like Fable? Completely blew. Now, this isn't a topic for arguing about games. That's the only reason I'm NOT moving this to the gaming sections, to be honest. Allow me to explain why Fable wasn't good, and don't change the direction of the thread to "well you're stupid for thinking Fable sucked." That's not what this is about.

Spoiler: It had all of this hype about "for every action, a consequence." Sure, that sounded great. I was excited, and I don't even own an XBox. I almost bought one just to play Fable. So, I went to a friend's house, and I played. I sat down, created a character, and beat the ENTIRE GAME in four hours. Okay, so you can have a lot of customization. Was it worth fifty bucks for TWO FREAKING LAME ENDINGS? A game that promotes "consequences" for "every action" should have at least two dozen endings, if not more. That game was a waste of money, and I feel sorry for anyone who bought it. The replay value is incredibly low, because once you get both endings, what else is there to play for? Toying around with more character customization options? Sorry, that's not worth the high price tag.

And that's just one example.

I personally don't feel that FF:CC was a bad game as valentine89 seems to, but I'll agree that it also didn't live up to its hype. Playing solo was difficult at times. I enjoyed the challenge. But the storyline was somewhat shallow. It was a fun game, but could have been so much more.

In that regard, and looking at the title of this thread, I look forward to FF:CC on the Nintendo DS and Revolution. There's so much more Square-Enix can do with it, and I think they're going to re-release it with a whole slew of options that won't leave us disappointed. Hopefully.


And finally, the questions our original poster asks.

Originally Posted by Griffith

Is the gaming industry losing it's touch? Do you think they are focusing a bit too much of hack&slash and graphics?

No, the industry isn't losing its touch. We, as gamers, need to look farther than the hype surrounding a game. We're all suckers for it at some point or another. Just because it looks pretty doesn't mean a damn thing. I do think companies are focusing a bit too much on graphics, but I wouldn't say the same about "hack and slash" games. That's like picking on a genre. H&S is its own legitimate genre of Adventure and RPG games, you know.

But on a final note regarding graphics, here's my personal opinion. Graphics should not mean ANYTHING when it comes to judging whether a game is good. Sure, an aesthetically appealing game is more likely to please me -- who wouldn't be pleased with something pretty? That doesn't count for anything as far as I'm concerned, unless it's a sports game with bad collision physics. What matters is the gameplay. If the gameplay is too complex, too easy, or too pointless, people will be disappointed. (To v89, yes, FF:CC's gameplay was a bit too easy.)

Second to gameplay is storyline. After that, for me, it's music, and then followed by character depth. Yes, I place music above the backstory of each character. Why? Because without compelling music, games are BORING. It's very important -- to me, anyway. Every other aspect of a game, including graphics, fall way under those four.

[Baneheart]

Exactly, that is my whole believe. I never judge games by how good the graphics are and judge a game by exactly all you have there. But as I meant for the H&S genre it's just become...so repetive. Well most of it's games. I mean like Dynasty Warriors, they have like a bagillion games that are hardly different other than "fixing the lag" and adding a new feature, but all in all they haven't succeeded in making it GREATER than it's games before it. Stuff like that pisses me off. I have felt that more companies have been focusing more on graphics than the gameplay itself, trying to make it look "realistic" rather than "fun" most of the time. Like the GTA games, I think they suck with graphic wise, (so polygonic -_-), BUT they still make great games. It's good to see some people who see it the way I see it.

Course yes games are flourishing greatly because of the cash flow, but "original" games don't come that often nowadays. And EA is like the largest gaming company, why? Because they put out games on EVERY system, they don't limit one game to one system. I should go get this dude from EBGames to come write a post cause damn is he awesome with this issue.

[Sasquatch]

The question is...are they changing, or are we? Now I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, as I believe the industry's standards have declined as well, but I wanted to raise this question. When we were younger, we thought the "new" games (at the time) were challenging, interesting, and could keep our attention. We grew older, and with age, gained maturity. (Well, most of us, anyway.) So our tastes and interests in entertainment have matured with us. Realistically, the largest market for most games is mid-teenagers. So, are games getting worse, or does it just seem like it because we realize they're geared for those with less mature interests without realizing that it's our interests that have changed?

So, why are they changing? Are they not, and just seem like it, because our own interests in entertainment have grown to be more mature? Or are they trying to market to younger, less mature gamers? Or is it that society has grown so immature in the last decade that they have to "dumb down" games -- i.e. make them more visually appealing, but less intellectually stimulating -- to have the largest market?

... Alright, I'm done.

[Deicide]

Personally I am of the opinion games have been on the decline recently, though I beleive the RPG market recently got a boost, for unknown reasons, with games like Dragon Quest VIII hitting the market in the kind of rocket blast of sales that seems to scream volumes on the overall quality of releases in that genre all by itself. RTS, my other long lived love, seem to be dragging far into the dirt however with the Age Of Empires series taking over almost completely and very few inovative titles being fed into the fold.

Are they not, and just seem like it, because our own interests in entertainment have grown to be more mature?

This is a distinct possibility. However its been proven time again that games are capable of keeping up with any age group. Games like Devil May Cry manage to appeal to a certain age group and even produce the level of difficulty expected by older, more mature and more experianced gamers. So my question is not 'are the gamers growing older' but more 'why is the industry not provideing for those it knows will buy its products if they did as such?'.
Older gamers are a reliable, tried and true market, why NOT take the effort to appeal to us? I'll answer that below..

Or is it that society has grown so immature in the last decade that they have to "dumb down" games -- i.e. make them more visually appealing, but less intellectually stimulating -- to have the largest market?

I wouldnt have put it that way myself, what we have here is not so much people who are too 'dumb' to play decent games as people that either grew up with the less challengeing and original games of recent times or are new to the whole thing, either way they lack the kind of experiance more 'established' gamers tend to expect of there fellows includeing the understanding of what really constitutes a challenge, the attention span and the knowledge to stear clear of the horrible movie, TV and other knock offs the rest of us are well versed in avoiding at this point.
Visual appeal is there to get more people interested, to many none gamers the whole 'o it looks pretty' is a big draw into the gameing world. Often they arent really interested in gameing for its own sake, in the same way a lot of people listen to music to pass the time or while doing something else as apposed to just sitting and listening for prolonged periods of time, they want something pretty and amuseing that wont eat up there social life, not something innovative or even something that tells a windeing tale of human nature and heroics.
There is also the matter of kid gamers, who we should really look at as parents since they are who decide on the game purchased. Again they want bright colors, positive images and something that wont keep junior from his homework and his friends all night long. Granted most of them are still somehow managed to fail at this, and the effect of there ignorance on the market is a continued agrivation for the rest of us, but the point remains that, for the most part, this is what daddy, and daddys deep pockets, want to see on the shelves.

It seems to me what we have here is less a manditory media 'dumbing down' and more a shift to a different market, one thats slightly easier and very much cheaper to cater to, one that demands less inovation, less game life and dont mind higher prices. In short the much dreaded 'casual gamers'.

However I dont belive its so much that more bad games are coming out in terms of percentage. We still have a large number of good games like the afore cited DQVIII and DMC as well as the small growth of casual games that many older gamers are begining to enjoy like the Katamari series, it so happens there is a lot of horrible stuff out there but, when you think about it there always was. With the new money coming into the industry theres more chance of better games as well as a chance this horrible vulture-fest will go on for some time to come.

Its really just a case of asking if the occasional diamond is worth putting up with all the dirt that surrounds it.

:..2-2-7..:

[Lethal Seraphim]

LocoColt, I hear you big daddy. I enjoyed Fable immensely when I played it through for the first time(I rented it). However, I too was disappointed by the overall shortness of the game. I figured it would be some intense game that you could spend hours and hours on doing absolutely nothing, so in depth that you could act out the most mundane tasks. I expected reactions to my choice of boxer shorts and whether or not I paid cash or credit. All these are valid choices but WHERE WERE MY CONSEQUENCES???? Ok so maybe I'm trying a bit hard to be funny...

Anyway, it let me down hard. I though there would be a lot more game than was there. Maybe I'd like to play it through again and be evil, since I was good the first time, but other than that... meh.... ya know? A friend of mine loads his up and starts to play it again and show his stuff to me talking about how he owns all of this town and has this many wives and all that and I'm like wow but that's just no fun at all.

Sorry to digress there...

I'm with valentine89 a lot on this matter though, I prefer older games any day. The last game I purchased was the Megaman X collection so that I could play all the old ones. Every now and then I run into a really fun new game, but I just find it hard to spot them.

Speaking of recent disappointments.... I recently rented and played Castlevania: Curse of Darkness. Now, I've never been a big Castlevania fan, and the only other game I'd played was Lament of Innocence(which I loved, although a lot of people tell me they disliked it), but I thought I'd try this one out as well. The gameplay was mediocre and monotonous, with most of the focus put on leveling your summons differently, which I simply have no patience for. It was a good game, but not a great game, ya know? Kind of just riding on the franchise's previous successes.

And a more recent one: Last night me and 2 friends played Hunter: The Reckoning: Redeemer(not necessarily new, but dont we love games with like 3 titles?) for the Xbox. Now I've played a couple of the Hunter games and they're great fun in the way of hack and slash in my opinion, so naturally I enjoyed this one. However, the final boss was the easiest boss of the game. Not one of us died fighting him. We died the most fighting the first boss and it wasn't because we'd gotten a lot stronger since... So in a way it was kind of a cop out and a waste of about 4 hours of my life if I was playing for the satisfaction of beating a good game, which I was.

Point of my post is this: I am getting less and less of what I want out of newer games these days. (reference to my posts in Halo and Halo 2 in the gaming section) I've found that while some are good their replay values aren't as high as a lot of older games. Maybe that's because it was the era I grew up in though, ya know?

[fragdemon]

Even though this is industry related, I still feel it should be moved to the gaming forum.

As far as the continuous rants about gameplay over graphics, I always have the same response:

Try playing the game with the TV screen off.

It's a bit extreme of an example, but the main point is that the images on the screen are integral to the gameplay.

The one game I'm happy with in the new Xbox 360 lineup is the boxing game Fight Night 3, which is absolutely incredible, I've played the demo for hours.

One important part of the game is the fact that the game doesn't need a healthbar, a feature related entirely to its graphics engine. In lieu of a health bar, the players gauge the looks on their boxer's faces, realize that one boxer had a cut open up over his eyes, and watch how much they grimace when they are hit.

Without good graphics, this would've been a failure.

Also, games like Half Life, Metroid Prime, etc. have a main draw through their immersion. Without their incredible graphics, the player just wouldn't feel like they were part of the experience at all.
____________

Is the gaming industry losing it's touch? Do you think they are focusing a bit too much of hack&slash and graphics? Give your input my fellow nerds.

I think this is an incredibly selfish way of looking at the video game industry.

Clearly, the video game industry is appealing to a wider and wider audience, is innovating incredibly much, etc. Holding it to virtues it once had would be like a guy from the 20s insisting that movies should've stayed silent.

The only issue is that there are more games coming out now than ever before. If 1 good game came out a month back in the late 80s, that would be almost all of them. If 1 good game comes out a month now, that's 1 in 30-40 games being good.

Even on the NES, there were bad games.

The way history works out though, we only retain the good games from history. Even though tons of movies were getting churned out in the 40s and 50s, we only really remember the classics.

[Baneheart]

Selfish? I merely asking a question to what a person thinks about the gaming industry today. However, I did not say graphics were bad to have. I am in awe to how some companies have made such amazing graphics within their games and gameplay, so by all means do I actually love graphics and how they have changed the gaming world from the early PSX to the XBOX. My point was though I have been seeing so many games that had great graphics, BUT their gameplay was just terrible. That is why I bring up the theory of are gaming companies focusing MORE on graphics than the gameplay itself? Yes there has been many great games with both good graphics and gameplay, RE4 for example, but excluding the games that already have a place in history it just seems to me many companies are just trying to get your money.

The best FMV graphics I have seen though is from Onimusha 3. The beginning of it was just so amazing I literally had to record it. The game itself was rather fun, (Onimusha fan indeed ^_^), but anyway small or large companies have been pushing games that are just so terrible and unoriginal. Of course there are the sayings of failing is a way of succeeding since we learn from our mistakes, but some companies don't seem to get that. Like Armored Core for example, I ALWAYS loved that game. However it has failed in keeping itself up. All they have done in the latest games is add more options and then added the regular arena and missions. There is hardly anything different.

Graphics are essential to gaming yes, they have brought us new systems to play with and really love...but I'll just be repeating myself since as I said before, some people are relying too much on those eye-candy graphics. But if I had to sacrifice good graphics for good gameplay I would do it in the blink of an eye. But good points though.